Rebus considers the formation favoured by Ronny Deila, but is concerned by the implementation.
Imagine the scene as it appears through the mists of time, a fourteen year old Rebus standing with two of his mates in the corridor of the Science Department of his secondary school. A door opens and the most attractive girl in the class glides into the corridor. You know the type…she appears at least two years more mature than any guy in the class. In case she tries to share my wealth as well as my memories, let’s call her SC. The school dance is on the horizon and everybody wants to partner SC to it but nobody has the nerve to risk almost certain refusal.
I step forward, goaded by my mates and do the unthinkable. I ask her to the dance.
“Yes, if you like”, she smiles.
I bask in the glow of her reply! My two mates are picking their lower jaws off the floor as SC glides on down the corridor. The News spreads like wildfire. Rebus is taking SC to the dance! How did he do it? As the afterglow starts to fade, I am besieged with worry as I cannot dance at all. SC is sure to be a magician on the floor. I go to my local library and there is a whole shelf full of books on how to dance. I take out the maximum permitted…five books crammed full of every popular and not so popular dance on the planet. Each dance is illustrated by diagrams of footprints….one large set and one smaller. I figure that the large set must be the male’s steps. I memorise the steps for the Tango, the Foxtrot, the Mambo, the Waltz. You name it I had weeks of practise jumping from one set of footprints to the next and all from memory.
Along comes the dance. Mum has got me a new pair of trousers, 14 inch bottoms. I am IT! The band starts up playing a quickstep. SC turns to me and asks if I know it. Immediately a series of diagrams springs into my mind. Yes! On the floor I take her left hand in my right, snake my left round her back, and………..start to jump into the footprints that I have memorised. Somehow the music is a complication and so is my partner.
It was a disaster and the evening had only started!
What has this to do with Celtic and our Norwegian coach, you ask?
The lesson is that you may know the theory very well but at some stage you have to walk the walk, or dance the dance, or play the game.
Our coach knows the 4231 system inside out. He knows the advantages of it; he knows the roles that both the “Three” and “Two” components should play; he knows how the full backs should support the forward play.
He knows it all. He has seen it work at other clubs. Manchester City is an example. However, he cannot get it to work consistently at Celtic.
Consider the last seventeen games in which he has played the formation.
He has tried 11 different permutations of the three midfielders, and he has tried 8 different versions of the “two’” pivot roles. Yes, that is correct, eight different arrangements of two players. In the “Three” he has only used the same formation a maximum of three times. How can any familiarity be built up amongst the unit under these circumstances?
Now, in fairness, there have been injuries, but these do not account for all of the chopping and changing that has occurred in the engine room of the team. Take Callum MacGregor as an example. Ronnie has played him in the “Two” and in the “Three”, and, when he has played 442, as the second striker. Johansen is another who has shuffled between the “Two” and the “Three” frequently. We can see what has happened to his form this season.
Is this necessarily a bad practice?
The answer is “No”! Take one of the contenders for the EPL crown….Spurs. They play 4231 regularly. Furthermore, they shuffle players between the two midfield components of the system. What they also do, that Celtic do not do, is they have a player, Chadli who can play either as the lone striker or as an attacking midfielder. So shuffling players amongst the components of the system can work but, I think, most will agree it is not working for Celtic. Wait a minute you cry, the comparison is not a valid one. Spurs have better players. Just look at how much they paid for them.
However, we must also take into account the quality of the opposition that both teams face. There is a world of a difference between Manchester City and Motherwell. Celtic have significantly better players than Motherwell and yet, playing 4231 against them at Parkhead we conceded two goals and lost the match.
So what is the future likely to hold?
We have hardly played Christie. Henderson(an excellent prospect) and young Nisbet are due back from loan. Throw in Ajer and even with departures we have a surfeit of midfielders. The temptation will certainly be there to cycle players in and out of the team. I am not naive enough to believe that shuffling players in and out of positions and that playing 4231 are the only reasons for poor performances and poor results.
However, I do believe that any difficulties associated with these issues should have been resolved well before the end of the second term of a coach’s tenure.
Especially when we consider what could happen this season.
Here is a staggering prediction.
As shown below, if both Celtic and Aberdeen perform as they have over the last seven games, Celtic will lose the league by three points.
Performance over last seven games
Team Wins Losses Draws Current Pts
Celtic 3 2 2 63
Aberdeen 5 1 1 59
Projected Performance over last ten games
Team Wins Losses Draws Final Pts
Celtic 4 3 3 78
Aberdeen 7 2 1 81
The injuries ,the loss of both the CB’s in the summer,the loss of form of key men and also suspensions have played havoc with team selection.
The System is fine,we have the players to play it as least season showed with fairly ruthless efficiency on the domestic front.
However all of the above have hindered team selection ALL SEASON.
The fact we had been unable to field the same back 4 for 5 months, the fact we lost Brown Johansen and Armstrong at full ability has severely hampered the midfield as these 3 were key to its success last season.
Deila deployed this System successfully at Stromgodset he never lost a home game for 3 years I gather?
The RB area has been problematic all season we lost Lustig ,we then lost Janko and subsequently Ambrose filled in.
Yet regardless of all that we still sit 4 point clear having failed to put a decent run of form together.
I say we should with it because it works well when it works.
We don’t need a Chadli we have the best finisher in the League up top who is currently on course to match the liskes of Larsson and McClairs scoring feats.
Considering he’s only scored a third of the goals I would say keep doing it till they get it right again.
Absolute Tripe, the reasons are simple. Having the CDM drop into the back line when only Charlie has played CB and us squeezing not stretching defenses by playing inside forwards and our #10 in a long line in the 18 yard box. Along with the entire opposition team.
Charlie,
Thanks for reading my rambles. We are playing SPL teams not the elite of Europe and we struggle. That is the issue. Ask yourself is this a better team today than the one from 2 or 3 years ago?
As far as RD’s record is concerned at Stromgodset, did he not also go a whole year without an away win, playing his system?
There is something wrong with the way he implements 4231. If you look at other exponents you see that often and quickly get three forwards in the box waiting for the ball to arrive from the wings. We often have Griff crossing the ball into the box for nobody. My goodness, he is even known to take corners….Aimed at who? The poor sod was back defending the other night!
On Chadli if you are correct, it is a good job because we could not afford him. As it stands, stop Griff and you have a good chance of stopping Celtic.
Look at the evidence of the last 7 games we have played. Look at the fact that Roberts was at the presser, not senior players..
I wanted RD to succeed. It would have been a breath of fresh air that could have flowed through all of Scottish football. However, it has flopped. The reasons that he is still in place have little to do with his ability or his system. They have to do with finance and available alternatives.
I admire your resolve to defend your position and in the round, it is only about opinions and a health debate.
Rebus
Rebus67 systems/tactics are all very well but if you do not have the right type of player with the right type of attitude/athleticism then it is a waste of time.
John,
There is truth in what you say. But you cannot tell me that RD does not have enough midfielders from which to pick a winning combination. The problem is not the players, it is the manager who does not know how to achieve what he wants. It is becoming clearer that he has lost the support of many of the player pool. Look at most of the managers in the SPL, every year they have to re-build their team and perform within a season. They can do it with lesser resources, our manager cannot. Our trajectory in the league is downwards not upwards or even stable.
I am hoping that the shambles fictionalised in the diary of the day is just that….fiction. But…………..
Rebus
We sit at the top of the table.
Our trajectory has been constant-Up(we can go no further than top btw).
Even with the issues we have had to deal with at the back.
Aberdeen strengthened in the window.
We were weakened by the loss of our central defence then weakened further by injuries to 4 defenders.
Taking that into account we have 2 points less than last season by this point and Aberdeen a point.
The reason Griffiths was back defending was he lost possession of the ball and chased it back to make amends.
His shit he cleaned it up which is something you won’t find golden bollocks Commons do EVER.
Deilas problems at Celtic started when he dropped golden bollocks and opted to play Johansen in the 10 role.
His issues with the support stated when he opted to play 1 up instead of 2.
He won a League and Cup Double doing so Johansen was POTY and Griffiths was finding the net with geat frequency as a result.
Injuies,losing the Central defence,losing Brown ,losing Mulgrew,losing Jozo,losing Lustig and Janko at RB have all caused Deila serious issues this season.
The serious drop in form of Johansen Browmn and Armstrong has severely affected a midfield that was sorted by the end of last season.
Major issues at a Club who are not overflowing wioth genuine quality.
The type of genuine quality that get’s you out the shit in Europe if you aren’t playing well.
The lack of quality lies squarely at the door of the Board.
We find it polish i then punt it.
This has a corrosive effect on any plans we might have had in Europe.
You can’t hope to be competitive when you keep losing or selling what little quality you possess on a yearly basis.
All factors that have had a massive effect on any plans Diela had 20 months ago.
As much as the fans love to see a striker chase back to clean up his own mess it does mean the quick break and/or long out ball is no longer on. That’s why fans love Rooney (W) more than managers.
Still, Pawlett has a broken arm and the other Rooney is out so Aberdeen will falter and a mediocre Celtic will win the league at a canter giving the impression to Lawell and the board that everything is rosy in the garden.
Charlie,
I posted a response but it vanished. I’ll reconstruct it manna when I am sober.
Rebus
Charlie Saiz,
Mind put your poster of Ralph up on your bedroom wall before you get tucked in tonight 🙂
So we’ve got half the team doing the Charlies-ton and the other half doing the Full Monti?
HH
Sue
Celtic should be playing with a strike partnership, we always have, and let’s be honest here, the club has had a pretty successful history deploying two strikers.
Griffiths scores the goals I understand that, however if we were to be without him for a month or two, Cole nor Richards would give us the same return.
At the end of the day, one up front could work if your main striker was an outstanding talent.
How many times have we seen Griffiths head out the box looking for the ball and cross it into the box for others?
Give me Larsson and Sutton every time!
That would also apply to playing 2 up we would still be struggling with those 2 up.
Celtic are going to win the league and cup double, hail hail. Come on the hoops.
Ronny has had his share of bad luck this season, dodgy referee decisions plus injuries to key players throughout the season.
That said, the team / squad is reflective of the man at the helm. Nothing to do with tactics or formations. The team is weak. As to is Ronny Deila.
He has zero leadership skills, and it is abundantly clear that he is systematically failing to get the best out of the players… Tierney excluded
You are kidding yourself if you believe Celtic will win the league. All the momentum is now with Aberdeen. Celtic will collapse over the coming weeks.
The crowning glory will probably be turfed out of the cup by the unwashed across the city. This season is a disaster.
Simply removing ‘Delilah’ won’t be enough you need to hit them in the pocket through merchandise and season tickets. At the end of the day Celtic are a business…cashflow is king….so really in the hands of the fans.
They to gee the young bhoys a game on Sunday
Rebus, good article, if only Fitba was as easy as Precision Dancing.A Team is a reflection of there coach,as old as that saying is,its still as relevant today.Brave and confident coaches produce brave and confident teams,if the players respect and admire the coach they will run through walls for him,if they do not then you see the results.
It does not help the Coach if he does not have previous football history or they believe that he was not the first choice.If Keane had accepted the job do you think that the players would have stropped or tried his patience,no chance. I will include no tactical awareness or to be able to be a game changer,ie the 8 players on the touchline,not asking for or given any instructions,the experiment has Failed.
So many pessimists posting here. Fact – Delia is an excellent manager with a real knowledge of the game. Fact -We have the best squad in Scotland. Fact -We could field a team consisting of 11 players who each play for their country. The past does not predict the future. The fatuous table above assumes that it can and will. You read it here first. Celtic can and will win all of their remaining matches this season. if you want that to be a reality then turn up to every game and be the 12th man …..or just pontificate on a keyboard and refuse to be a real Celtic supporter.
Pat,
Your padded cell is ready….
I expect an apology when we do win all our remaining games this season
Pat,
We’ll see!
Pat,you are expressing opinions and presenting them as facts,
If R.D.is as you say an excellent Manager,then how come he has failed so often in Europe and how come as i witness at home games the team are Regressing and not Progressing.With as you say the best squad in Scottish Fitba,filled with International players.
I hope you are correct in that we will win all our remaining games but that is a wish that we all share.
Your apology is awaited for your generalising of all the keyboard support,but i wont count my chickens.
Actually Sue’s was the best post!
A 442 at home is the best system for the bhoys we need to start playing good fitbaw before Europe or we will get knocked out HH bhoys
Good article Rebus, even 4 3 3 with the players we have would make more sense
Well said, i have been advocating that since before we got pumped away to Malmo,it was crying out for it then.
Agreed.
Rebus
Well written article Rebus but statistics are historical not necessarily predictive. You limited your conclusion to the last seven games as suggesting the outcome of the next ten games. But what happens if we take the last ten games as an example of the final ten games of this season. Yes momentum still lies with Aberdeen who have gained 24 points in last ten games against 21 points for Celtic. Add that to the current table and we have Celtic winning by 84 points to 83 points – a league win is still a league win!!! Do we really want a Celtic team who wins by a huge margin every week or do we want a competitive league in Scotland? If we won the league by a point against Sevco what would your reaction be? Being a Celtic supporter has its ups and downs for every generation – we have to take the rough with the smooth and on some days we will be bitterly disappointed with results but hey ho let’s move on to the next game and support the team to do better next time. I’m in the FOR Delia camp but I’m not in the FOR Collins camp – what exactly does he bring to the team. Ronny made a mistake accepting that appointment – but maybe he wouldn’t have got the job if he hadn’t accepted it. Who knows what Celtic team we would have now if he had been able to choose his own backroom staff – a staff who probably would have been in tune with the methods and system he had envisioned for the club. And as much as Collins and Kennedy were great players and servants of the club what have they actually achieved to warrant their positions as Ronny’s backroom. And would I want Davie Moyes as my next manager? Well Everton were merely a half decent team under his managership – they are far better under Martinez. I’ve never seen so many pessimistic Celtic supporters in all my life. Yes I was lucky to be around for 1967 and Nine-in-a-Row and the Quality Street Gang but even those teams were not adverse to losing or having a slump period. I went to Parkhead in the days of Ferguson’s Aberdeen and Jim McLean’s DUTD (never mind Sevco) and you could never predict the results beforehand but we got behind the team. The manager and players on the park won’t be everyones first choice – we all have opinions. But at the end of the day we all support Celtic, the Club. So let’s get behind them for five in a row. And if we end up sacking a manager for winning the league twice in a row or two doubles in two consecutive seasons then shame on us because there’s many managers before him who achieved less or nothing. HH Ronny Deila. HH Glasgow Celtic.
Oranje,
Great reply. You are correct that there is uncertainty in prediction because it is about a future that has not happened yet! However, history is used to forecast because there is no alternative. All Statistical methods should carry a government health warning…..only use them when you have to and there is no alternative. It is better than examining chicken entrails, at least, if only for the chicken! What I did was subjective…in that I chose the previous seven games, not ten, not fifteen etc. I did this to point out the unfortunate trajectory that the team is following at the moment.
We can agree that supporting Celtic is always going to have ups and downs. Let’s hope that the current down does not lose the league.
I am not interested in any of the managerial choices that you mention…would not recommend them.
Ronnies’ “failure” in my eyes has several components. I have gone on too long, so I shall not repeat all of them, but I shall mention one. It is kind of like Obama….expectations were too high coming in, and he failed to deliver them. Fast, free flowing football,fitness that brings opponents to their knees, energetic pressing of opponents….he mentioned these aspects. Did he deliver? By the way, he may be sacked because he has lost the players, not the trophies he may or may not win.
Sorry to drone on, but you took the time to respond, at length, to my rambles. Good to talk to you,
Rebus
Great post.
So on the money with all of that bud.
HH
a nice coming of age story turns into a horror blockbuster
Ian,
I was not sure I should have put the first part in! Still too much horror kills the point.
Rebus
rebus good write up im at it. anyone who takes the time out to write about the team is ok in my book. its hard to stay positive ..top of the league and miserable its an enigma within an enigma. formations are important but you have to deploy at least eight of the same players week in and week out. otherwise its like a nine month pre season experiment. also a bit shocked at chris suttons overzealous hatred for ronny deila my opinion is that its not working but ive never witnessed such an onslaught of snideness and bitter attack
Ian,
Agreed re Sutton. Disappointed with him. Maybe he thinks he can win a position at the club….maybe sees himself as a Gary Neville.
Rebus
id like paul lambert. sensible guy did well at norwich has local knowledge. would take the job . moyes or rodgers wont. sutton hmmm he could write his comments with a bit more tact. he writes like a blogger
Sutton has been at it since Deila was appointed.
He’s a jealous wank,living off past glories pure and simple.
aye i think pat is ready for the rubber room and baby food
Pat McCarthy. I laud you! I hand over my broken emerald-tinted spectacles to you. You now think as I once did. I hope you’re right and I will apologize to you nae bother if you’re right. But.
Deila’s inability to mobilise his squad, play them in the right position and above all, inspire them down the home stretch is a real concern to me. I now think that he is simply not up to the task. He has had bad luck, squad injuries, etc but we have the best players in the league and they are struggling. We need some inspiration somewhere. Rebus, your article was excellent, well-done. Pat McCarthy, we are all Celtic supporters. I hope you are right. I praise your optimism. Many of the nay-sayers on this site are so egotistical that Deila could win the European Cup and they will still be saying Deila out, Stubbs in…One other thing. For this Forum in general. We rightly criticise the MSM for their poor journalism but what solid evidence does anybody have that MON would return to our club? Quick, before Monti annoints his X-Box in anticipation.
🙂
Devoy,
You are correct..it is all about opinions. They are just like tongues and cheeks….we all have them.
Facts, evidence is hard to come by in this situation because there is much uncertainty until deals are made; contracts signed etc. The board will know what is going on, hopefully, but, I suspect, like us, they are divided.
Hope you are correct, Pat. I really have an optimistic outlook on life…honest!
Rebus
Great article Rebus, you can see teams play the 4_2_3_1 formation well and it works a treat but for some reason its just not working for us. Armstrong looks lost on the left, Joe Hanson doesn’t have the technique or nous to play #10, GMS is a shitebag and powderpuff and the less said about the fringe the better. Our captain runs about barging people then growling at them and little else. Add to that a dodgy defence constantly left exposed then maybe we just don’t have players clever enough to play this formation. Thinking back to Ronny’s high energy high pressing 24 hour athletes speech, what the fuck happened to that. Is it just me or does every team we play look fitter, sharper and more hungry than us.
Hail x2
Unless he is injured why is Allan not on the squad when a playrer who will not sign for the club is.???
I am bewildered by some of this management team decisions?☘☘☘