Monti, the other half of our resident comedy duo, asks the big question. The one thats on all our minds.. and he throws the topic open for discussion.
I’d like to put something to fellow posters and readers out there on Etims
I would like to know what other Celtic supporters feel about this use of only one striker in the Celtic side.
At 43 years of age, growing up through the 70’s and 80’s I was drawn to Celtic by two things, our distinctive Hooped Jersey and our attacking style, no matter where we went Celtic went to win the game.
I saw Nicholas and McCluskey, Nicholas and McGarvey, McCluskey and McGarvey , then we had McClair and that wee prick Johnston, fast forward to Larsson and Viduka, Larsson and Sutton, Larsson and Hartson,
Older readers will remember Deans and Dalglish, younger ones Vennegoor of Hesselink and MacDonald
Hooper and Stokes looked promising for a while.
Countless pairing s throughout the years…
Is one up front the cause of all our woes ?
Should we revert to tradition, and play football the Celtic Way ?
I firmly believe in Celtic taking to the field with two strikers, I don’t accept this one up front unless we were playing a Bayern level side.
What do you think ?
Celtic first and Celtic last and Celtic overall!
” Entertain the fans ” – Jock Stein.
HH!
totally agree
playing Griffiths on his own is predictable and teams can manage to defend too easily We have a good midfield who are unable to provide service when sides sit deep playing one up front for me doesnt create enough movement to stress defences
So how do you explain scoring….
84 Goals In the League
17 Goals in the Cups
20 Goals in Europe
(121 Goals Last Season)
And so far…
48 goals in all Competitions playing 1 up?
Evening Stato,
Could you put up the aggregate scores from the games involving Legia Warsaw, Maribor and Malmo?
You know….the games that really matter.
Please bring those stats to the table Charles.
Every game at Celtic matters.
They always have done.
The stats from those three games Charlie?
Plenty stats at the bottom of the page go get your gums round them and get back to me Monti.
Stato,
I don’t need to explain….the ‘ manager ‘ and some of the Charlatans wearing our strip need to explain TO US, why they couldn’t get past Legia, Maribor and Malmo and why they could have and should have lost by a greater margin on Thursday than they did.
They are the ones who aren’t turning up for the clubs biggest games!
Beating the worst Dundee Utd side on twenty years might be all fluffy…but my eyes are open to this manager.
Abject failure in Europe!
Agreed Monti like my last thread suggested do we have some big game bottlers at CP now?
Steve,
There must be a fear factor playing against two Celtic strikers, it would be interesting to hear someone who had to cope with Larsson and Viduka…..Even though Viduka was always playing at 70%….lol
I am slightly older and like you always want to see a partnership up top. Celtic has a rich history and tradition of playing to entertain with attacking passing play and I believe that two strikers always gives you a chance of scoreing goals throughout an entire game from the first minute to the last.This was especially relevant in our remarkable centenary season were late goals were almost a given. Modern formations and tactics are always only effective as the players ability and knowledge but what do you do play like the blessed T Burns team or Delias ?. I hope there can be a balance and we see two up fromt at home games because its in our dna to attack and bring back the goals missing from our play.
Danny,
Two up front at home and away games mate, this is Celtic we are on about here!
Go for their fucking throats!
Monti, I admire your passion for our club. And some of those pairings up front were great to watch. That said, the current formation of 4/2/3/1 seems to be what all the big sides are going with these days all round Europe. I don’t mind what the formation or team selection are, as long as it’s the managers. I think (hope anyway) we need to stick together and support this team (manager and players) all the way. I’d like to see Ronny break up any cliques, drop the ego maniacs, deal with any unrest or dysfunctional personal relationships in the team (coaches and players) and give it his best shot without compromise, I think he might be too accommodating and too respectful to each individual when perhaps a few toes in the baws could be in order…but who knows..
I know for me, I’ll support the manager all the way, and I still bet we have a winner in there just finding his way
Brendan,
I admire your faith in Deila, I really do….I’ve seen enough though, in Europe where we should be judged, Deila is guilty!
The board appointed him so they need to stand up and take a lead here.That could have been 5 or 6 on Thursday….must be something wrong!
This one up front is the hole rage now. Started by klopp many say, and barca. It’s just a fast. We should try 3-5-2 again.
But something tells me ronny won’t do it.
Lawwell out.
Hail hail
London Celtic,
Playing one up front would work if we had Thomas Muller or Diego Costa!
We have Leigh Griffiths!
That said monti , the griff with a target man along side would get 40 a season,I’m of course.
Hail Hail all.
Keith,
A Celtic striker should be getting 25+ a season, every season.
If not there’s something wrong.
Had Griffiths taken some of the chances squandered already his season he would be heading for 20 goals by Chistmas.
The System is creating chances a plenty but due to the level of finisher we are prepared to pay for they simply don’t take as many as they should.
Hooper was a 1 goal in 3 shots Striker when he was signed.
Griffiths isn’t.
Though that’s not
Had Griffiths taken some of the chances squandered already his season he would be heading for 20 goals by Chistmas.
The System is creating chances a plenty but due to the level of finisher we are prepared to pay for they simply don’t take as many as they should.
Hooper was a 1 goal in 3 shots Striker when he was signed.
Griffiths isn’t.
Though that’s not to say he won’t become one as he improves at Celtic.
Time will tell.
Griffiths has a higher goals to game ratio than Hooper, as he tweeted recently.
First 50 competitive starts for Celtic:
Leigh Griffiths – 39 goals
Gary Hooper – 28
He’s a more complete player and takes just as many if not more chances, quicker, better feet and better shooting from distance.
@Joe
Hooper had the 4th Highest strike rate in Europe in his first season behind Ronaldo Messi and Di Natale.
That slowed up later once Lenny got the idea in his head he should be dropping deeper.
Out the two in the box Hooper was the more clinical.
We are practically playing 3-4-3 in possession against weaker sides don’t really see the obsession with 4-4-2 this is just progression. In the 1920s we played with 5 up front wouldn’t have worked 2000-2010. Ronny is trying to make his team more fluid. He wants all of the 4 attacking players to be interchangeable. For long periods of the game we saw Griff drift out to the left when we got possesion back. One of our “holding” midfielders was constantly playing as a half – back between the 2 center backs, giving you your 3 on the halfway line. With the full – backs bombing forward acting more like attacking wing – backs or wide midfielders in possession. That coupled with the midfielder behind the striker and the other “holding” midfielder gives you 4 where the midfield would normally be. Finally if the ball is on the flank and the inside forward does not cut in he becomes more like a traditional winger, with the “lone” striker and the other inside forward waiting for the cross (2 up front). Now I really like watching the fluidity of this tactic against other Scottish Teams, but it doesn’t work in Europe, but I don’t think trying to play 2 up front is the answer. It is my opinion that the tactic just described should become a counter attack 5-4-1 with much of the same movement, but the full – backs defend, the half – back is more like a covering defender (sweeperesque) and the 3 players behind the lone striker only bomb forward for counter attacks. Ronny needs a proper target man that can hold up the ball and a big CMD/CB who is agile and fast for it to work. He has at least one of everything else.
Andy,
We are certainly more fluid, there is enough gaps in our defence that the titanic could float sideways through it….I hear Ambrose fell overboard trying to get his foot unstuck in a deckchair.
100% spot on Andy.
Andy
If you are talking about the Dundee Utd match,our under 21 team would have put them away.
Deila inherited a squad of players who had just won the Premier league by a mile,and made the league stage of the Champions league.
He has had three failures in the CL qualifires,and didn’t fair any better in the Europa cup.We will shortly be out of the Europa cup again,and you think Deila is good for Celtic.
Some Celtic supporters need to remember this is the famous GLASGOW CELTIC FC,not a highland league club.
Good post Owen, some fans are too accepting of the current situation.
Was 2 3 5 4 4 2 4 3 3
All fads they all brought success to the teams that had players to suit them what two great or even good strikers do we have to play up front every game Players in a position to shoot who opt to pass and others who can’t hit the side of a hoose when they do shoot are our problem not the system once a game starts the shape is continually changing in any game
Correct.
All down to how the plays perform at the end of the day.
On Thursday far too many simply didn’t.
players’
fs need to sort this Keyboard out r button is fek’d
Not it isn’t that simple, the manager gas to motivate, select the right team and instruct individuals on their role in the team, ensuring the players know their jobs.
Getting into their heads that they are Celtic players and the responsibility that brings.
They are a collective, they are one body, the management and players, if the team plays shite, the buck stops with Deila.
It’s the same for every manager.
Hi Monti. Well-written. As you know, I’m pro Deila but am still unconvinced by his 4-2-3-1. Ideally, it means we have four attacking players (six if you count the fullbacks) but I think it tires our players and leaves us exposed at the back. Domestically, I support 3-5-2 or 4-4-2. In Europe, we might go 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 or make use of a sweeper or sweepers.
But you asked for a vote and I vote:
For Ronny
but
For 4-4-2 or 3-5-2
I disagree with you on Ronny but agree with your article generally. I’m a bit older than you and remember more successful times, when we used two strikers and of course, wingers to help them out. You can’t quarrel with success!
Morning Devoy,
I just feel it would intimidate domestic sides if Celtic had a real strike partnership, I think it works at Celtic, from our best sides through our history, they always had two up front.
Martin O’neill nailed it with three monsters at the back, Balde,Valgaeren and Mjallby at the back with Agatha and Thompson wide supplying Larsson and Sutton.
Devoy45
I am probably older than you,and can never accept someone like Deila.
I have been around Parkhead for almost 60 years,and believe it or not I was at Hampden for the 7-1 win.
I was also in Lisbon when we won the European cup,and in Milan when we threw it away.
In all my time supporting the Bhoys Ronny Deila is in the bottom 3 managers,and needs replaced asap,otherwise we will end up in the wildeness of Europe.
do not like 4-2-3-1 at all. I think it leaves our lone striker totally isolated. As apart from Commons and Armstrong no one in the side can score goals from open play it is easy for our opponents to close down the threat. Let Brown Johanson have the ball they can shoot all day but never score.
sajfraser,
Agree, if the attacking midfielders are being stifled by the opposition, it leaves Griffiths chasing about the place, doesn’t look pretty on the eye that.
I think Ronny’s days are numbered. I don’t see a great deal of progress and he definitely is never going to be a Jurgan Klopp. Blue half will be back next half and I worry have they choose a better manager than us and although financially poorer than us be more hungry than our over paid lot!!!
Belfast Pete,
What do you mean ” back “?
You can’t come back if you’re dead neebs!
I lost my dad when I was 18, so if he isn’t fucking dead I want the two grand back it cost for his funeral….
Need to be flexible unlike Ronnie. Depends on who we play. SPL def 2 strikers at home. Lost all trust in Ronnie, time to go!
John,
I’m with you my friend, I just think Deila is a bluffer, a cheap option and won’t demand of the board…..sits well with Lawwell all that!
Ronnie out and Collins agree with you monti good bit of writing I think celtic should always play 2 up front and I also ask why change for Europe play the same way makes no difference we always get beat in Europe away from home anyway
Drewster,
I agree it doesn’t work, I would love to see Deila show some flexibility and play Griffiths beside Cole or Ciftci, I actually feel there is a lot of really good players at Celtic just now, we do need to invest in a couple of quality defenders, hopefully Simunovic will make that defence his!
4-4-2.. we don’t have the quality of players or manager to persist with the woeful system that clearly isn’t working at the moment, we’re so reliant on an attacking option coming from the wing backs and an attacking midfield, leaving us so exposed to the counter attack, which every team knows well in advance as Ronny doesn’t have a plan B, hence why teams are happy to sit back and allow oor midfield all the possession with very little end product, the wing backs are defender’s first and foremost, and shouldn’t be committed every game to be attack minded, a 4 man midfield should all be capable of playing either central or wide midfield, and not just hugging the wings waiting on an overlapping run from defender’s to create anything, and we definitely need to change to 2 up front, we’re reliant on attackers holding the ball up all the time waiting on support instead of being able to lay it straight off or flick it on to an other attacker. If the players can’t adapt to the system, then the system has to adapt to the players.. Ronny out please.. KTF
Keighley Bhoy,
It’s the Celtic way mate, two strikers and getting tore into defences.
I wonder what Big Jock would have to say about his Celtic taking to the field with one striker?
Carlton Cole will probably play today. He could be a good target man but is not a prolific goalscorer. There is no point him winning headers if there is no one there for the knock down.
You must play Griffiths or Ciftci up front with him and Commons backing them up
The Deila gamble has failed get rid and bring in an experienced manager before he does to us what McCoist did to Rangers.
Absolutely agree Sam, the hurtful thing is, when Deila was appointed, I bought into it, I wanted him to succeed!
As for the one up front, if we were scoring freely it wouldn’t be an issue.
The annoying bit is that we are playing mediocre sides domestically and Deila won’t fucking change the system, why not?
Annoys the fuck out of me!
Deila has had enough time he is making us so easy to beat ,one up front is a joke as one comment mentioned we should play 2 upfront at home99% of the time,Deila out,and 3-5-2 would suit the personnel we have at the moment,without ambrose!
Corktim,
Definitely mate, Ambrose wouldn’t bacon the bench if it were my decision.
He plays 1 up front in every game..That’s how I no he hasn’t a clue..Time to get rid..Ges s dud
Gerry,
Who would be your front two from the strikers available?
I’m 50 now and for at least 40 years I’ve always said Celtic would never play with one up front as its not the Celtic way and the supporters wouldn’t accept it. I personally hate one up front and think playing with two good strikers in Scottish matches especially it doesn’t matter how bad the defence is we will just score more.
John Mg,
Thank fuck Craig Levein isn’t our manager….he actually fielded a side WITHOUT a striker!!!
Fucking nuts!
My only gripe with Deila’s system is that when it isn’t working he doesn’t change it. Ive been a Celtic fan si ce the 80s and I e seen some absolute shite from many Celtic teams with 2 up front, far worse than anything we’ve seen from this team. In theory the current formation gives the option of four attacking players but that’s just theory. But same goes for 4-4-2 and 3-5-2, its just theory. The players need to do it on the park when it counts. Formations are a red herring.
Brian,
I respect your viewpoint mate but I disagree with it, when you watched Larsson and Sutton together, was that just a theory or did it bring success?
How did opposition defences cope with these two?
Did it intimidate the opposition?
That’s a daft comparison – Henke was one of the best strikers in Europe. If he’d played up top alone he’d have been equally good.
The reason that you’re wrong about this is 2 up front obsession is obvious: none of the top managers or coaches at European or international level agree with you. I seriously doubt that you, or any other punter, have more insight than the most studied and experienced coaches in the game. Even the ones that used to play 2 up front don’t anymore.
If we played 4-4-2 in Europe we’d be dismantled. Look at Man City, with their resources and one of the best strikers in the world – useless against even fairly mediocre teams in Europe.
Joe
Barcelona play with one striker?Real madrid play with one striker?England,Germany,Spain,France,Brazil,Agentina all play with one striker??.I could go on, please tell me what Neymar’s title is,what is Suarez title,no all successful clubs have two strikers or more.
Deila’s one dimentional teams will keep going backwards,need him gone asap.
That’s kind of my point. By that logic, whoever plays behind what we are nominally referring to as a striker (Griffiths) is also in effect, a striker. johansen/commons/Rogic all end up more advanced than the striker regularly, as do the two wide players. It’s the question of, basically, playing a standard strike partnership, which hardly any teams do anymore.
Real play 3 advanced attackers, as do Barca. Do they play two traditional strikers? No.
Neymar plays out wide left – is that where strikers play? No.
goalie, sweeper, centre half,right back, left back,right mid, centre mid, left mid,outside right, outside left,and centre forward,its not rocket science for fk sake.
Pat,
If you have a rocket, could you put Deila, Collins and Ambrose in it?
Dont know if the moon is far enough away monti.
I think the main issue is the number of chances created -I haven’t checked the figures, but we have been creating a very great number in most games this season (and last). The big problem is the failure to turn them into goals. Sadly we don’t have a Joe McBride or Larsson these days. If Johansen had taken that golden chance to make it 3-0 against Malmo, things would have been a lot different. The other major problem is poor defending (e.g. Izzy ball watching the other night)- simple basics have been lacking, not helped by loss of players and absence of stability at the back.Zonal marking is another contributory factor.So maybe it isn’t so much a question of formation,but an inability to get the basics right!
jrw,
I remember we used to play with three strikers at home, Mcclair, that cunt Johnston and Alan Mcinally….Deila would have a heart attack at that thought….
Surely one of the key features of the deila setup is that it doesnt change depending on who we are playing. It is meant to be a setup that will work in europe against better teams – and as shown against inter, its almost there. In order to be good enough for those games all the players need to know and understand it – thats why we cant have one system for spl and one for europe – our players aren’t good enough to grasp two systems. If we accept 1 up top is what we need in europe then we need to live with it in the spl.
Marty,
I get what your saying mate, but the question is, what do YOU prefer to see, one striker or a partnership?
4-2-3-1. I get it and see other teams do it well.
Last year, domestically it worked well but other teams are on to us now. My argument: two strikers scoring 20 each=40 goals up front. Last year Commons, Johansen, Griffiths and Guidetti all scored a total greater than that. The front four should be scoring 10-15 each. But…but..this year it’s not working and Griffiths is not getting the support he needs. Also, common sense tells me a nippy wee striker alongside a big fella who can hold the ball up is hellish for defenders.
Ciftci/Scepovic/Cole alongside Griffiths, Mackay-Steven, Commons or Forrest.
Here’s a humble request from someone who loves Celtic like you do:
Support Ronny and the bhoys this season. Shout and sing at Paradise FOR our team. If he fails this year, he will step down. It’s a bit like hobbling a horse then screaming at it for not winning. It’s shameful when we are at the top of our league and need to get some momentum and get the fans behind the team. I always thought us Tims were fair-minded?
Devro,we are fair minded and its fair to say this managment team are clueless,its nothing personal its business,we need to change it now.
Monti
I only have time for a quickie – no remarks now!
Even in the days of cavalry charges and all out attack, we were humped many a time by teams that knew our game. Those not just of my vintage will remember Aberdeen in particular watching us huff and puff trying to blow down the sheep pens and while we huffed and puffed at one end they bolted to the other and burst the net. If we are really honest, Celtic have rarely been good at defensive football and the all out attck mentality was often more bluster than common sense. However, I would rather that than playing pussy passy across the park.
To sum up, the maxim was mostly Torra, Torra, Torra. The outcome was often “What the f****!”
Sound familiar?
H H
Ooh matron!!
Pb, I hear what your saying and your right in what you say, I just think that Celtic are a lot more effective with two up front, it’s what we were brought up on.
Monti have a good look at the type of Manager who still uses 4-4-2 regularly they are as outdated and out of touch as the system.
England deployed 4-4-2 for nigh on 60 years.
1 World Cup.
In 1966.
Charlie,
Are you saying that there isn’t a single club throughout Europe who is playing a 4-4-2 formation and getting success with that system?
Through the years Charlie, did you enjoy watching Celtic with two strikers?
Yep but I am not against evolution at Celtic.
If playing 1 main Striker allows us to dictate the midfield and attack from all over the Park then go for it I say.
I would like to see an accomplished striker at the pointy end though someone with an al round game.
That will take a bit of investment though.
Over to you Pete….
Did we dictate the midfield on Thursday….when it mattered?
No we were a shambles allover the Park on Thusday when it mattered again you may have read my piece on them bottling it?
Or not.
You play that shite allover the Park it does not eally matter who Manages and what System you will get gubbed at that level.
Monti, for the vast majority of games 2 up front. Simple as that, top European opposition then go with 1 striker fair enough but domestically give me peace!
Maryhill,
Totally mate, Remember Shearer and Sutton the year Blackburn won the League?
Total nightmare for defences.
My posts aren’t coming through, which is probably the worth of them – straight to the bin saves everyone the time of reading them. Griffiths played up front alone for the hibees in the premier league and scored his highest tally – 27 I think. I’ve no issue with 1 up front or anything else the manager decides, and I’ll be backing Ronny all the way. He might even succeed. I don’t know about being a football manager, or a coach, but I know about being a supporter. I have faith in the club and I’ll be right behind them. klopp and Dortmund fell apart after he lost his performance director to red bull – who tore us a new one when we played them last year. The special one has fallen apart, and even pep can’t win the champion league again. All I’m saying is most things worth achieving take time, trial and error, faith and guts and perseverance. So while we can debate formations, coaches etc, lets support what we have meantime cause God knows they can do with all the help they can get at the minute.
The darkest moment and all that…
Brendan,
It’s your right to back Deila if you think he is the right man to take the team forward, if you are happy with what you are watching from this side then fine, can I ask you a question?
On Thursday night v Molde, what evidence was there that this Celtic side is heading in the right direction?
That could have been 5-1 or 6-1 that night…you want to back a manager who is embarrassing us against Scandinavian sides?
We all back the team but it’s right to point out the problems we are facing as well!
You are right in what you say Monti but there is world of difference between pointing out problems than going on a witch hunt.
Thursday was a collective fuck up but the bulk of the issue lay with the players application not the System or the the approach.
I will reserve my judgement in May oony will have had plenty time to show us what he’s about by then.
Ronny’
Charlie,
Deila has had enough time in my opinion, we are losing the games that matter under Deila, in Europe there is regression not progression.
I’m happy with the result today but I have lost complete faith in this guy and there are thousands of our support who feel the same, are they all wrong Charlie?
Charlie,
The players were a disgrace on Thursday, sick of the ‘ we didn’t turn up pish’!
There is no witch hunt Charlie, we all wanted Deila to succeed, has his results suggested he knows what he’s doing?
We got a draw away from home in Maribor, Deila should have ordered fucking all out attack in that second leg, get in front early, get the stadium rocking and Maribor would have shat it….what did we do? Cautious, slow, predictable shite…then we paid the price.
Too soon to make that call.
Ask me in May.
Well, it is almost Halloween after all.
A whole 12 games into a 38 game Season….
Your own quote being’Witch Hunt’.
Whooshed over my head last night my eyes were screaming after collating them goal stats ..very good andy 😉
HH
I am sick and tired of this old shite it was the players fault.
Never heard Jock Stein criticise his players,never heard Martin O’Neil criticise his players,never heard Billy McNeil criticise his players,the manager should alway’s shoulder the blame,after all he picks the team,and lays down the tactics.
How many clubs have sacked the players for the tactics being one dimentional.
We need a manager who can organise,change when needed,send Ronny back to Norway NOW!
I completely agree we could have lost by a greater margin, and it is always the same. Poor play on the edge of the center circle, counter begins ball goes out wide, opposition midfield flood into our half, pass back to the middle one touch to the far post or a deft ball through the middle and bang our 2 CBS and our HB/CM are stretched and out-numbered hoping Super Gordon can make a save. Well that our Efe acts like a Numpty.
Well said.
HH
Are Dundee Utd the domestic version of the European Celtic as thats the worst Dundee Utd side I can remember in my lifetime!!
Highseastim,
Credit where it’s due though mate, the performance today is what we are looking for as a support.
Well done today Celtic, keep it going on Wednesday!
Hail Hail!
I should imagine ASDA may run out of Humble Pie tomorrow.
What’s happening at Asda tomorrow then.
So glad we didn’t have to witness the Ronny roar nonsense today.
No but the 5 roars for the goals sure made up for it though eh andy?
Absolutely.
Humble pie?
Because we beat a shite, bottom of the League Dundee Utd 5-0?
Easily pleased me thinks.
The team deserve credit for their performance today but it isn’t fooling anyone…..We have become a joke in Europe!
Molde could have scored 6 against us on Thursday….has that got your attention?
Absolutely.
I ate my fill—last year. I’m alright Jack.
5-0 and good football. Tierney was a breath of fresh air. One game at a time, even in Europe. I never “heed the hoodies craw for doom…” Ronny showed some character by starting Commons. It takes class to apologise and it also take class to accept it. Saw lots of good stuff on the pitch today.
Devoy,
That is all we want mate, Celtic winning with a bit of style, that will always be enough for me!
Plenty unity as well every cloud and all that…….
Charlie,
What is all this unity pish you’re going on about?
Are the fans not always unified?
For fuck sake we beat utd 5-0 and everything is rosy is it?
You need to look closer to what is being said here….We are no closer to the CL now than when Deila first came in…..are you accepting that?
Unity on the Park.
You know where all the issues were on Thursday night.
Good to see
Unity on the Park.
You know where all the issues were on Thursday night.
Good to see the players smiling and enjoying their Football again.
Devoy,
Commons got a standing ovation….very telling…
Don’t think Ronny had any option to play Commons,he was probably told from higher up to play him.
That formation can work if you have a john hartson type . My biggest concern with it is the players we have the players for it, we are playing griffiths who im sure we all agree plays better as a two and i dont understand the signing of cifti when by his own admission hes a player who links up the play and does a lot of work outside the area. If these are the players we have then surley you play to their strengths. I think that cifti is being wasted in the current set up as was scepovic
Carlton Cole.
With you all way when it comes to pointing out the problems monti. I’m not always happy to watch – Malmö and molde for example. That said, I can’t see any better solutions right now than to stay the course, and hope it comes good. If we sack Ronny, who do we get? What about that would be better I wonder..? He has a record of punching above his weight, and I think he’s entitled to more time I see if he can achieve that with us. I can’t think of one manager who I’m confident would be better, baring in mind our wages structure, budgets etc. I also think the structure and budgets are sensible and as we’ve seen in Europe teams can achieve plenty while still being sensible financially. I’m as discouraged as any Celtic fan with some of the performances and results, but hope we can improve them before the end of the EL. That said, he has to get us into CL next season or even ill find it hard to stay behind him. I’m also a prejudiced towards negativity about Celtic, the MSM and indigenous Scot are apt enough at that when things are going well, never mind when there’s bumps in the road. I always think the best way to succeed in anything is with unity. It’s not that. People can’t be pissed off, maybe rightly so, but I doubt any of us really know what’s going on, what th circumstances facing the board and manager are, and what they’re actually doing about it. I for one am very happy we our board, I think they’re among the best in British football. I hope the manager gets to join them there.
It could work with him charlie but then you lose griffiths , there lies the problem
Having options is never a problem Del.
Start with Griff bring on CC and go direct if need be.
I still think Ciftci is a better option in the 10 slot he has the ability to hold the ball up and find a pass.
” Go direct “?
Midfielders like, Armstrong, Johansen, Bitton, Forrest, GMS, Commons and Brown….and you want to punt a high ball up to Carlton Cole?
That should fill the stadium right enough….
And you call me Mike Bassett?
Some defences are hard to beak down you need to have different options.
Take the goal Griffiths scored the other week when Commons took a quick free kick from his own half.. Perfect pass over the top to a quick thinking Griffiths.
Never heard too much moaning when that went in?
Even the purists were smiling at the quick thinking from both of them.
Agree 100% with Monti and the front pairing. I’ve been saying for years that we have been at our best with a double act getting us the goals. Donestically there is no reason for us not be playing with 2 men up front and a successful pairing will put fear into any team that we are about to play. It would also bring back more of the entertainment value which fans are crying out for.
Come on the Hoops lets see what you are made of. Hail Hail
5-0 going on 10-0 today and we have fans talking about entertainment value?
Jesus wept.
Not really that entertained by watching Celtic playing against pish poor teams. Any 11 of this boards contributors would have got 5 against that Utd team. This is a piss awful league and we are measured by performances in Europe which since Ronny came have been shocking
Absolutely.
Spot on Macca,
Results in Europe under Deila is like watching 5 Huns on university challenge..
Lost!
Two up front for me unless you are playing against a top quality side, good question earlier at etims showing larsson, Sutton and harts on asking the question which 2 do you drop? Even against dundee utd today it could have been 10 with 2 up front, the amount of times crosses go in to the back or front post and out 1 striker has gambled on the other.
Jackie
Even the game on Thursday night when we were in advanced areas with the ability to drop a ball into the penalty area, there was nobody in the box and that is something we witness with great regularity.
Andybhoy,
We literally couldn’t pass the ball to each other 10 feet…I was appalled by this nonsense!
It’s fucking nuts, but under the useless one, it’s not even an option.
Monti, sums it up when the best move of the night was a dodgy misplaced pass from one of their defenders to Commons for the goal.
Totally agree andy
I think with thr ronny formation it would be better with commons playing the number 10 role as he will give griffiths the support he needs. Still prefer a two but if this is the way were going then id line up with commons off griffiths
Larsson and Sutton was a thing of beauty..
and domestic sides couldn’t cope’
It works for Celtic!
Cam you imagine being an opposition defender on his team bus heading along the M8 to Celtic park, knowing Larsson and Sutton were playing?
Points already in the bag mate, we need to be feared again, teams can be beaten before they get off their team bus!
Goal Stats last 10 Seasons
Season 2005-06 League-93 Cups-10 Europe-4 TOTAL= 107
Season 2006-07 League-65 Cups-16 Europe-8 TOTAL= 89
Season 2007-08 League-84 Cups-11 Europe-9 TOTAL= 104
Season 2008-09 League-80 Cups-13 Europe-4 TOTAL= 97
Season 2009-10 League-75 Cups-12 Europe-10 TOTAL=97
Season 2010-11 League-85 Cups-28 Europe-4 TOTAL= 117
Season 2011-12 League-84 Cups-19 Europe-7 TOTAL= 110
Season 2012-13 League-92 Cups-25 Europe-17 TOTAL=134
Season 2013-14 League-92 Cups-8 Europe-12 TOTAL=122
Season 2014-15 League-84 Cups-26 Europe-20 TOTAL=130 *
*(not counting 3-0 win awarded against Legia)
Season 2015-16 League-31 Cups-2 Europe-15 Total= 48
Season 2015-16 League
Season 2013-14 League goals should read 102 TOTAL figure remains the same =122
Hopefully this will put to bed the 2 up 1 up debate.
Certainly does for me.
We create more chances on average playing with 4-2-3-1 than we did under Lenny TM or GS.
The only issue we have had is the level of finishing because believe me with a Hooper or in form Griffiths up there we would be burying more of them.
I like Griffiths he has a great attitude but he’s not got the same strike Ratio as some of the previous strikers we have had a t Celtic.
We need to invest in a proven finisher then you will see the real benefit of this System.
Though the 130 goals scored last Season was not too shabby considering a new Manager in a new League with a new side trying a new approach is none too shabby going off the previous 9 years.
It’s easy to look at a flat result in Europe and go look beat by Malmo or Legia or whoever but seldom do fans take into account the early start in the Season,injuries,luck,poor finishing,mistakes or teams being 25 games into their own season when we face them after 6 or 10?
No some fans just go off their gut and push all these important FUCKIN RELEVANT FACTORS to one side and foam at the eyes.
Carlton Cole might be a useless piece of shite in a Celtic top? He won’t be the first will he?
Bangura Pukki Balde Rasmussen Miku Murphy Fortune fuck me we have gone through some fucking dumplings in the past few years.
Or alternatively he might just slot into this 4-2-3-1?
Time will tell.
Just like time will tell if Ronny Deila has something worth pursuing here or otherwise?
Top of the League,in the Cups 3 games left in the Europa 48 goals already scored.
How many of you looked at those stats and were suprised at them?
Be honest because up until last Season we were operating with 2,3 strikers on the park in most games.
Yet this System bar 1 Seasons has been more profitable in the goal department.
That 1 glorious Season when the stars aligned and we punched well above our weight.
Then sold the crown jewels to the highest bidder.
There’s the real issue here not Ronny Deila folks.
Simunovic showed glimspes today as to why we paid £5m for him.
We sold players worth double that and have fans expecting the same level of performance?
Dream on bhoys.
All well and good, though 6 of those seasons we played in the Champions League against a higher caliber of opponent and not so many games against such giants as Molde, Maribor, Malmo, Stjarnan, Reykjavik, Astra etc.
2014-15 Europe; Scored FOR 20. (5 v Reykjavik) AGAINST 21.
2015-16 Europe; Scored FOR 15 (6 v Stjarnan) AGAINST 12
Strikers at each Managers disposal
Strachan-
Sutton
Hartson
Zurawski
V of Hesslink
Kenny Miller
Samaras
McDonald
Maloney
Mowbray-
McDonald
Keane
Samaras
Fortune
Maloney
Kamara
Rassmussen
Lennon-
Samaras
Fortune
Stokes
Maloney
Murphy
Hooper
Bangura
Brozek
Watt
Miku
Lassad
Balde
Pukki
Griffiths
Deila-
Griffiths
Stokes
Scepovic
Pukki
Guidetti
Ciftci
Downsizing?
Absofuckinglutely andy.
So with all that in mind Charlie, do you prefer a Celtic side with two strikers?
I prefer 3-5-2 said it umpteen times however the Manager is going with 4-2-3-1 and I am happy with that.
I listened to his reasons for doing so and they make perfect sense.
The stats above would appear to back it up.
So would the Silverware.
That’s fine Charlie, You answered my question.
Monti,
First post on this site which I read every day. You disregard the most common sense comment on here with “ooh matron”.
” Sutton and shearer, Larsson and Sutton,”
That’s amazing, all we need now is to have Larsson Sutton and shearer to sign on a year long loan deal.
Big jock did an amazing job to find those eleven players to fit into his 4-2-4 formation eh.
Jock didn’t have to, those players made their own formation, but times have changed. Its about the players we have. Give our defence a chance and we might see the rest fall into place, as in last season. Today I saw what could be a new Celtic grown regular hold his own and that’s all any of us want. Give it time.
Tony,
I didn’t disregard anyone’s post..” ooh matron ” was meant to ba a humorous retort to PB’s ” Quickie ” comment.
Still don’t get it? No.
I was using Larsson and Sutton as an example of a striker pairing….
Same with Shearer and Sutton, it really is quite simple.
It seems to be all the old boys carping on about playing 2 up front. People used to think the world was flat as well bhoys! The game is changing, Ronnie is trying to implement a system that will work for us in Europe, he’s said (several times) That once the players perfect the 4-2-3-1, that he will start intorducing more systems & formations. Yes, we were shocking on Thurs, but things like that are going to happen while we are a work in progress.
Its interesting that quite a few people are calling on us to spend big on a striker, look at Fenerbahce, they are throwing money about and I thought they were pretty rotten at CP. RVP, Nani, Meireles, Markovic and a few Brazilians all on 40K plus a week. Money doesnt automatically buy success.
Jobbypetta,
The game is changing is it….OK then, did you see the Molde game last Thursday?
Did this innovative ‘ new way ‘ of Deila tactics show up well or was it a shambles?
Two up front every time & a taxi for Lawell ,Deila,Collins & Kennedy.
Charlie Saiz. Those goal statistics really surprised me. I can’t get over how much possession we get, and how many shots on goal we get and often, how many corners we get. Many of us Tims would be happier if somehow we converted more of these chances we are creating. It is attractive football but short of what it should be. We’ve even had some of that possession in Europe. I think this can improve, when that happens Deila will be proved right. I still insist we are on the right track. I am not blind or stupid and will know when Deila should cash in his chips and we are nowhere near that point yet. Nowhere near. I will eat all the humble pie when the time comes but will not be putting any in the freezer just yet.
That’s exactly how I see it Devoy time will tell and I am quite prepared to give him time to prove it.
3 years should be the cut off.
3 years? God help us.
I don’t think the fans will afford him 3 years though.
I would if it was my call at Celtic.
Good sides that is the sides who win major Trophies tend to be built over a 3-5 year timespan.
Sure there will be the odd player coming in or out as players get moved on or sold but the backbone of these sides tend to stay put.
Continuity and perfecting the System is key to success.
Some Clubs of course will simply go out and try buy it in a short space of time but it’s not sustainable and we at Celtic will never be in a position to do so (thank fuck).
Chopping and changing Managers is not a good idea full stop it creates havoc in the dressing room and reeks of desperation.
That tends to be the actions of a Club in trouble …we are not in trouble.
Aston Villa are have been since Martin O’Neill was moved on he lost just 50 of the 190 games he was in charge.
The 4 Managers since have lost 100 of the 220 games played.
T
he replacement for Sherwood sacked last night will be their 5 Manager in 5 years.
It’s Lunacy a lunacy brought on by desperation.
We currently sit Top of our League 4 points clear of our nearest challenger.
We are still involved in 3 Cup Competitions.
Only a complete nugget would choose to change Manager at this stage of the Season given all of the above?
Thankfully those that make these decisions are not nuggets.
Charlie,
Why 3 years the cut off?
If you believe in Deila why not give him 4 or 5 years?
If he is developing a side and we have to somehow accept not qualifying for the CL 3 years on the spin, why not give him.Even more time to ‘ develop ‘ the team.
Deep down I think you know Deila is bluffing it, but you have backed yourself into a corner about Deila.
I much prefer Celtic to line up with two strikers. In Europe we may need to chagne shape and go with the Ronnie 4-2-3-1, but how effective has this shape been in keeping goals out? 7 goals conceded in 3 EL games would suggest not very.
But when we are playing SPL games we should hae enough about us to dominate teh game with 4 in midfiled and an extra striker making runs, holding the ball up and amking space for others to go into, but sadly ronnie seems blinkered and cant see beyond his system.
we had the same shape last year and broke a 96 year defence record in the League.
We won the League Cup and never conceded single goal doing so.
It comes down to personnel El not the System.
Lustig off form
Izzy off form
Ambrose spoadic
Boyata young and inexperienced though improving slowly.
Hardly a recipe for shut outs is it?
A settled backline with players playing to the standards we know they can and have at Celtic then things will improve.
The new bhoy looks promising the price we paid for him suggests he has plenty to offer.
The data really tells the story. we create many more chances under the current system compared with the prior system. Generating chances from multiple areas is modern football theory and practice with occasional uses of the old 4-4-2. As for letting goals in those stats are equally telling and speak to the defense and how to better organize there. While the idea of current formations is creating more chances it is also defending as a team in much the same way as attacking as a team. EXECUTING this is the issue. The quality and training of players we have will dictate our ability to fully utilize this system and build on it especially in defense. While some of us like two strikers, using one works just as well and perhaps even better
I’ve written about the formtion thing before, using Germany at the World Cup as an example, but here is a bit more detail.
At the 2014 FIFA World Cup, Germany deployed two formations, the 451 and the 442:
Duration Vs Result
90′ Portugal 4-0 W
69′ Ghana 1-2 L
45′ USA 0-0 D
120′ Algeria 2-1 W
22′ France 0-0 D
32′ Brazil 2-1 W
120′ Agentina 1-0 W
21′ Ghana 1-0 W
45′ USA 1-0 W
68′ France 1-0 W
58′ Brazil 5-0 W
Didn’t paste very well, bottom 4 are 4-4-2, above is 4-5-1