Many thanks to CarljungleBhoy for his first hand account of the court case. Hopefully this information will provide people with a clearer understanding of what really happened in the Amsterdam court on Thursday.
Rechtbank, Parnassusweg (ParANUSweg?) 220, Amsterdam 21 November +/-13.15 to +/-22.00
I’m afraid I don’t have the time/brainpower/energy to do this properly right now but here’s my tired “stream of consciousness” take on what went down, with random ‘highlights’, based on my – almost illegible – notes. Not necessarily in chronological order. You have been warned!
IF you want properly organized, coherent, PC stuff, in the correct order, check the live tweets from the courtroom at https://twitter.com/strafzaken
+/13.15-13.45: Family get very little guidance on exactly where to go, or how long they needed to wait. No clear information unless you go asking yourself – easier said than done in a foreign country when you’re nervous. Nobody official offering help – Deliberate when dealing with family/friends of “criminals”??? Nobody from the British Consulate???
Note to myself: Avoid Brit journos like the plague. Dutch are sympathetic. Brits are simply pathetic. Added later: Shit! That bloke in the bog with Scottish accent was from the BBC! Glad the only thing I said was – why don’t they have normal pish-against-the-wall gents bog thingees (urinals – Ed) instead of 2 x ladies sit-down WCs with blokes queuing up..?
Family told they are only allowed in Public Gallery. Courtroom & surrounding areas choc a bloc with TV crews etc. Public Gallery: Upstairs. No phones or cameras, behind glass. At least 2 cops at all times. Not exactly comfortable. Everybody left space in front row seats for the family – best place for sound & vision (Naw! Not now Bowie!).
Christian Visser’s (CV) parents, sister & girlfriend all very helpful. Lovely people. CV’s dad thought we were all family – I told him that’s exactly what it feels like. We’re all part of the Celtic Family. Micky from Dutch Assoc of Football Supporters (-ish) Nice bloke. Clever. 100% behind us .
OK. Here we go…
Cue Cameras. Smile. Action…
First impressions.. Judge is a bit of a dick. Never been to a football match? Never been in a big crowd?
Missing interpreters? Let me do it and I’ll give it the right spin!
Don’t like this. Already get the feeling he’s very pro-police (Mickey & CV Snr agree)
Police did NOT identify themselves as police. All 6 Bhoys say the same. All 6 accused all say the Romeos (undercover psychos) looked & acted like hooligans. All their statements at various times are 100% consistent on these points.
Police took photos during/after arrest then laughed about them (at Padraig?) Not 1 photo in any of the police files.
Long discussion around whether video evidence is admissible or not and if so, what? If I understand correctly, Judge Dredd-ful is not interested in footage unless its directly relevant to the individual charges of the individuals charged. Videos relevant to explaining wider cause & effect are not allowed? Later. Yes!
Tram footage not shown for same reason. Hmmn.Token gesture to the defence? Or removing lamppost bit?
CV So far, Every word from defence makes sense and is clear and unequivocal to all. I would use stronger words, but then again cursing’s not allowed.
Ruling on point of law. Chief of Police Pronker (Plonker?!) made a statement in newspaper (Volkskrant?) which negatively effects ”presumption of innocence” and is also inaccurate over drunkenness – Tainting the case in favour of the proscecution (henceforth known as prostitution). Judge dismissed this saying what the Chief of Police said didn’t influence him one little bit. Tosser.
Padraig (Thomas/Andy?) video being played. Some problems getting to right place. CV (cleverly) finding reasons to wind back & forth to ensure nobody missed one kick, knee or blow. 2 of the Mums are crying. Gasping. CV showing slow-mo, winding back again. Argument over whether agent has hood up or not, like hooligan. Prostitutor: not completely – You can see a bit of his head. CV – Clearly. Also, one had trainer on, which CV points out are associated with Ajax hooligans. Judge didn’t seem to know what he was talking about. Not a surprise (My granny’s trendier and she’s long since toasty breed) . What a total prick that man is. My god I don’t believe what I’ve just heard: Judge complaining about CV switching back & forth. “this is like watching a (cartoon?) video with my young daughter” and this to a background of police violence that can make you weep FFS. Playing to the camera’s … again!!!
Note added later: Sound on video is very clear. Not once do we hear anybody, anywhere, shouting Police or anything similar! Who’s lying here?
And it’s not the Bhoys. It would be unfair of me to pick out any one individual because every single one of them was absolutely magnificent in my honest opinion on the stand. Dignified. Polite. Consistent AND – TRUTHFUL (a novel concept in this court), even if the truth worked against them (e.g. throwing cans). Even when the judge interrogated trying to catch them out (only the accused got this from the judge), they didn’t falter one bit.
Best bit was the spontaneous (-ish I think I started it) round of applause that broke out from the Public Gallery when an accused said that he’d never, ever, in all his life been treated like this: i.e. attacked by plain clothes “hooligans” who came running out of nowhere without identifying themselves and that it was very clear that the main cause of all the trouble was that the police failed miserably in controlling things. Judge warned we’d be thrown out of court if we made one more sound.
On that subject. Yes. I admit I did make a few more sounds. Tuts. Snores. The odd phrase (Scandalous) – e.g. see my tweets on this. Bottom line was that I was the only true Celtic fan (discounting Christian Visser’s family) in the P.G who spoke Dutch and understood (almost) all of what was being said during long incoherent rambles by the prossie. So I reacted when it was clear that statements being made were a bunch of lies. For example. The prossie/judge claimed that the action by the Riot Police was completely within their normal methods and 100% appropriate/proportional to the situation. Anybody who’d seen the footage posted the previous day from the corner pub will have trouble accepting this. In passing, that’s one of many instances where it seemed the judge hadn’t really done his homework. That footage wasn’t even mentioned once during the trial (reasons above?)
Also. The judge talked total bloody pish half the time. What the hell did it matter exactly what type of beer was drunk, or what size of can, or how many? -. I know people who can get drunk on 3-4 cans but others who could drink 3 dozen (slight exaggeration) over a few hours and still be relatively sober.
What the hell do we care (<cue for a song) that one of the accused did not have a Celtic shirt on? (his answer btw – it cost 50 quid & he could buy a normal shirt for that and be allowed into pubs without hassle). What the fcuk was the judge trying to insinuate? It had everybody flummoxed then and I still don’t get it now.
How come the judge didn’t notice that Padraig had a totally different accent from the rest? “Where in Scotland are you from?” Again judge didn’t do his homework.. What else was he doing but playing for the cameras and failing miserably to be funny when – after hearing one of the accused came from Kilmarnock said. – “Oh isn’t that where Johnny Walker came from? – Both me, Micky & the 2 Dutch journo students sitting behind me had exactly the same thought: This judge is not only biased, he’s a complete idiot!
Oh. Yes. The Prosecutor. Boring twat. Lots & lots & lots & lots & lots of repetition. Playing to the cameras with how great Celitc fans are than putting the knife in.
Waiting (im)patiently for prosecution evidence, rather than blah la blah… statement… Romeo # what. ..Blah Blah. Bottles thrown. Drunken Celtic fans. Only enough violence to control . Rules of engagement. Sounds like he’s reading training manual. Snore. blah blah blah. Judge & Prostitute are BORING me.
Lots of technical legalese. Might as well be Japanese. Overload of Dutch abbreviations which audience surely don’t get? A.E, M.E, O.M. Aanhoudings Eenheid = Undercover scumbags. Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou … ya lying bassa! M.E – Mobile – Eenheid = Riot Orcs. O.M Openbaar Ministerie aka Pubic (<sic) Prosecutors.
I noted names of cops but started losing track on who fits with who & keep getting muddled up. Lots of S’s. Might be good if we could see them from up here. Hibbink, Lottenberg, Schouten, Sap? Rens, Suurbier, Lof, Van E, Stuur, Saan? Straathof? SSSSSSSSSSS. Storley? Van Eijk?
Constantly going on about drunken fans, throwing bottles . Endless lists of endless numbers of injuries suffered by endless poor policemen – none of which could possibly be caused by a (totally invisible) lamppost of course – and definitely caused by one or other of the accused which is very, very, very clear from the evidence – Except for the fact that there is NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE or any corroboration other than what more than one policemen says in in their statement. Which brings me onto a couple of – in my eyes – crucial items….
Police statements 15/16 November. Although some police statements were dated earlier, the fact that the police had 9/10 days to tweak statements to fit their story, or change them to cover online footage which had by then come to light, yet the judge chose to totally dismiss this, says enough about which way he was leaning. He did not see any reason to doubt or even question – even once – any single statement made by the police, irrespective of when those statements were made, or even when they contained clearly confused or conflicting details.
Reason given by the police that could not produce any evidence to prove that so-and-so had actually done what he was accused of e.g punching or violently assaulting poor Romeo – was that, in at least 2 cases (Padraig & Thomas?) the assault they were accused of, and want to send them to prison for, apparently happened before they kicked the shit out of them (sorry “applied appropriate force to stop them resisting arrest”) and that just happened to have taken place out of sight behind a large police van / bus, and was therefore not visible on camera. What do they think we are – total bloody idiots? Oh yeah, before I forget – What exactly happened to all the Dam Webcam footage from EIGHT different positions and how come that wasn’t available or even mentioned? I remember watching web cam footage of happy Celtic fans singing & dancing up until about 5 o’clock when I left work to go home for my dinner and pick my son up to go to the match. Here have a wee look right now… http://hdtv.webcam.nl/website/page1/page7/h264_streaming_video.html
Did nobody ask for that footage to be kept? (incompetence!) Or is there an even more obvious reason – Perhaps it doesn’t fit the Police story? Perhaps it contains even worse footage than we’ve seen to date – such as people getting their legs broken in 3 places? Oh BTW the judge said there was no proof of that other than the fact his leg was broken in 3 places. It could have happened anytime. He almost – but not quite- said that he deliberately broke his leg in 3 places himself and it nothing to do with the police. Which reminds me…..
The judge didn’t allow any more defence witnesses to be called – e.g. Padraig’s girlfriend – as they “couldn’t add anything to the picture” – how about corroborating his statement – and then came up with this ludicrous comment along the lines of “we can hardly call every one of the 2000 people on the Dam that day to give evidence” – which he seemed to think was really stormed the heights of comic genius.
Another very troubling fact about this (SligoBhoy take a bow for the tip) – very close to being sinister – is that according to the Dutch Press Bureau (ANP) – King Willem Alexander and his Argentian wife were actually in the Palace on the Dam between 4 and 6 o’clock on 6 November performing an official prize-giving ceremony, in the exact same timeframe that “festivities” on the Dam reached their peak. If they were due to leave around 6 PM, isn’t it a truly amazing coincidence that all hell broke out just before, and just in time, to clear the Dam between +/-17.20 and +/-17.55? Was there an urgent need /order given to clear the Dam before 6pm by any means, that has not even been mentioned/noticed here in Holland? Yeah, OK, OK I’m paranoid, but it IS strange…
Now I’m starting to struggle to see which things are still important enough to mention, and are still clear enough in my notes to read…so I’ll need to wind down. BTW Details on the sentences, damage claim amounts, full names of the 6 Celts are all available elsewhere. And all the personal details of the 6 – income, family situation etc. etc.– are nobody’s bloody business but their own, so don’t expect me to tell you.
Totally random items: There were loads of factual inconsistencies in police evidence – again not really questioned by the judge- Here’s a few I noted….
The WINE BOTTLE which – after being thrown- and hitting a policeman somewhere – possibly once, maybe twice and maybe damaging his lips and eyes, or just his nose, or maybe all 3- mysteriously changed into a BEER CAN. Now that’s one even Jesus would struggle with!
Well, to be honest the multiple vs single injuries item came up in another context of another attack and I’ve married them here, but the above is nevertheless representative of the level of innaccuracy which totally escaped any questions from the Judge.
In addition to being very, erm, judgemental about the drink, the judge was also uber-judgemental when it came to the another point of law, namely the “it’s his word against mine” dilemma, which he solved with astounding juducial wisdom. Despite the fact all 6 Bhoys, who didn’t know each other, all said exactly the same things independently and were consistant all the time was not as strong as the fact that at least 1 other policeman, backed up what another had said. So this meant it wasn’t just 1 man’s word. The judge therefore found that there was no reason to doubt any of the policemens words, whereas “we only have the accused’s word for it” that what he said was true, to what happened to him. At this point there was a creaking sound as Solomon turned in his grave.
The case of the missing camouflage jacket, which seems capable of being both there and not there at the same time. By the way why was Padraig checked late at night and notes taken about what he was wearing then? There was also another jacket which may have also changed colour from Green to Black or Black to Green or back to black (perhaps after being scared by the ghost of Amy Winehouse.Sorry)
The difference between 1 of the accused having blonde hair, which changed to red-blonde, which changed to red or was it light ginger, or maybe it was an error in translation, or maybe it was very short or not, or longer. Obviously we must dismiss the possibility that all 6 of the accused are metrosexuals with 24 hour access to hairdressers and Boots The Chemist. Sorry I’m getting silly now* – this is serious stuff. By the way can I mention that despite everything, the accused & their families still – at times – showed they hadn’t lost their sense of humour so I’m hopeful most will not take offence at my flippancy.
Anyway. I’m sure loads more would come to me if I just get some sleep – I might come back & tidy up or add more another day , but let me summarize quickly:-
THIS TRIAL WAS A TOTAL FARCE:
THE CONCEPT OF INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN LOST SOMEWHERE UP THE NETHER REGIONS OF THE COMPLEXITIES OF DUTCH LAW.
BUT, WE WILL NOT STOP UNTIL WE GET JUSTICE! Because…
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” – Martin Luther King Jnr
Foodnote: Nobody in the Public gallery had eaten the whole day and there was NOTHING after 6. No food , No Drinks. No Water. No Coffee. Nothing – This was resolved by a mad dash to a Burger King just in time to get back before re-start!
Stitch up,no justice will prevail whilst our government sit on their hands,had it happened to a now defunct club there would’ve been action from Holyrood.
A feckin disgrace, and to think, there are some who are considering voting in these shitehawks
Whats equally astounding – or actually maybe just par for the course (BLT/BRTH this is for you!)- is what have the Scottish Mainstream Media been doing all this time, other than kowtowing to the funny handshake brigade?
This is many miles away from being our “Manchester”. In fact, whilst I realise its overstetching it, the way things have gone if you examine what the Dutch police & authorities have said (and above) it’s more like a wee quiet lane not far from Hillsborough.
Also, how come a total amateur like me (I also have a full time job btw) mannged to fish out video footage, storylines and lines of inquiry that the SMSM never even came close to thinking about looking at?
If there’s one good thing which has come out of this so far (other than J.Q walking) it’s that it’s helping expose just how morally bankrupt and clueless the SMSM are.
PS Update. Lastest news from CV on the Dam Webcam is that – some of the Web Cam footage is available online – but he can legally reuqest access to this and other footage if needed
CJB
The whole saga is beyond belief and utterly scandalous. What I find incredible is how the British Consulate has simply ignored the whole episode – so much for protecting the rights of its citizens. Or, does British citizenship stop at the border? If this had been English hooligans, they would have been all over the Dutch making demands. Also, the SMSM plague seems to have spread throughout the British press. If the fans had all been in fatigues, there would be an outcry that would break the sound barrier. I am truly disgusted – and genuinely concerned for the survival of true justice in this warped, modern world.
H H
Well said PB. Amazed you managed to find your way to the end of the article. Wit? – You didnt read it, just paged down’?. Boo hoo
CJB
It was easy to read the lot. The confusion simply made me feel I was listening to myself. The bits of humour helped to assuage the anger and keep me focused. But it came from the heart and from a real experience. How different from the media journalism that comes from the arse and insidious fiction. I assure you, I enjoyed every word and those lads deserved my little bit of time to get through it all. Thanks again.
H H
PS
I meant to add your description of the families’ experiences and emotions was quite powerful. It is hard not to have great sympathy with their frustration and sense of helplessness. It is, therefore, important they know that we supporters are at their sides in whatever way each of us can be.
H H
Muchos Grassyarse, PB. Ive hardly had anybody comments on it, either negatively or positive, so was starting to think maybe everybody thinks its total and utter drivel or meaningless shit. OK Im 1-0 up, that’s a start.
Bearing in mind I had to virtually re-write it – due to an E-Tims “technical” hitch – in the wee small hours following a half day at work, 9 hours in the court room, 3 hours sleep, a full day at work in a high-pressured job – and keep the online plates spinnig and check out the whole King B at the Palace “scoop” at the same time – not to mention coping with 2 teenage kids and a sick partner, I dont think its too bad.
It is what I say it is – A stream of consciousness attempt to get my notes written down and paint a (Jasper Johns like)drip painting of the major legal issues and experiences of myself & the families in a deliberately Non-PC way.
As I said up front if you want neat,tidy,chronological & excuriating BroganRoganTrevino&Hogan (No offence sir) like detail – youve come to the wrong place!
CarlJungleBhoy, thank you for putting this out, absolutely brilliant. A complete change from what we’ve heard so far and why couldn’t the Scottish/British media have covered it like you have? It’s a disgrace that it has come down to you to relay this to us. I’ll put this onto West London CSC site on Facebook if that’s okay. Excellent read. HH
THP, you are right it is a disgrace that CJB has had to do the job the paid “professionals” (journos) in any other right minded country should have done as part of their job.
But CJB, it is very much appreciated that you have put in the time and great effort to report to us Tims what actually went on in that charade of a trial.
Thank you CJB
Exelent coverage of what was a very upseting day for all the celtic family
Cheers Guys.
Most shocking case of injustice against innocent football fans. What is the first minister of Scotland doing about this? Nothing after all he criminalises football supporters for supporting their team. Maybe Scotland’s future is bright and just maybe it’s future is orange. Stand up and counted or hang your heads in shame . Hail Hail Free the Amsterdam Tim’s now. You’ll never walk alone.
CJB, thank goodness for your presence and motivation to do all this – the SMSM shown up YET AGAIN, but this time in the barest way. I keep thinking about the apologist crap they were putting out when a certain former club were rampaging across Europe, yet when our bhoys and ghirls who travel everywhere and support their team in the right way are treated with such blatant injustice and provocation, the lamb-eating shitebags canny wait to (try to) put the boot in. I say try too, as the truth will out, and they will just keep looking more and more exposed for what they really are.
Solidarity with the Dam bhoys, and fuck the SNP (i’m an Indy supporter, which is NOT the same btw), and keep the faith folks!
Muchos Grassyarse binkabhoy!. Ive not had time today to research the “King B in The Palace” issue, but @CelticResearch and @sligobhoykds have been digging deeper. Its possible the hea dof state came & went before the Riot Police got sent in, but timieframes are still being investigated.
SCOOP!!!!! Footage of Royals at the Palace has 2 old ladies going on about “war” with Riot Police on the other side of the Palace. I await corretion but I may not be a parnoid conspiricay theoerist after all! This is MEGA! Why has SMSM not mentioned this?
Doh! Dyslexia Rools K.O I meant “correction.. “paranoid conspiracy theorist… “
Why on gods earth did civilian dressed young policeman decide to infiltrate and administer the laws of the Dutch legal system in the build up to a big game, every city in Europe knows that fans travelling to their city in numbers will congregate in a central location, get drunk and look forward to a game of footy. I would be ashamed and embarrassed if our police acted in that manner, never mind our courts jailing innocent people. How many Ajax fans were arrested when they stormed the pub and lobbed chairs at CP….I
Thanks CJB. Your time and efforts are very much appreciated.
Keep the faith