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Bending a Ball Around a Wall

By the Provocative H

I am alarmed at the ease at which some fellow Tims (and I include some well respected ETims scribes in this) seemed to think that it was fair game to continually stick the boot into our assistant manager, John Collins. My problem is that most of the assessments seem to me to be based on quotes that have been read in the Daily Record , the paper that most of all has consistently taken the most soup served from the PR machine at Ibrox  (in both their incarnations), and is mutually accepted in Tim Land as being “anti-Celtic”. This manifests itself with a conclusion by some that Monsieur Collins is always talking, as the good people of Monaco would say, merde. Some go further, and conclude that our former Predator wearing Hunskelper of the 90’s is arrogant, aloof and only interested in showing off his stomach muscles to those poor fragile souls who inhabit the Celtic locker room and should therefore be sacked.

Before I start, its worthwhile remembering John Collins as a player, and his Celtic credentials. I’m sure that I read years ago that his dad used to drive him all over the country to represent Celtic Boys Club (pre Hutcheson Vale days), but given my memory has suffered due to excessive alcohol over the years, I cannot represent that as fact. What is certainly known, is that just before he signed for Celtic in 1990, he was approached by Rangers and offered better terms to sign for them. However, being a man of his word, and a Celtic fan, he ignored this and signed on the line for his boyhood heroes.

John signed for Celtic just as the wasteland of the early to mid 1990’s was about to start, and along with Paul McStay and Tom Boyd, became the shining lights in a very dark time for the club. A tenacious, skillful and sublime midfielder, his range of passing, goals and free kicks (which became his trademark) were of the highest quality. He was a regular goal scorer against Rangers, and who can forget his 2 free kicks (one of which was in the shut out game at Ibrox) which silenced those in red, white and blue. John was also a real team player, filling in at left back and left midfield (even if he was naturally a central midfielder) where his partnership with Tom Boyd proved to be an effective part of a generally dismal Celtic team.

After 221 appearances and 47 goals, John decided to progress his career by exercising his option to sign for Monaco on a Bosman. I think this was one of the first Bosmans, and certainly one of the most high profile.  On a personal level, I was distraught as he was a firm favourite of mine and his class would be missed. However, after 6 years of dedicated service during a time when the team was really poor, I could not begrudge him a chance of furthering his career with Monaco, who at the time were making strides on European scene. There are those who disagreed with his decision and the fact no fee would be received seemed to exacerbate those feelings of discontent. Unlike Henrik (who effectively chose the same exit strategy) and the glory years he experienced, John left the club after 6 years with a sole Scottish Cup medal to his name.

 

JC-walfrid-2767313500000578-0-image-a-23_1428603023004

 

So, against that background, I don’t see where this buildup of contempt and ill-will has come from, other than from people putting newspaper quotes, mischief and rumour together to inform their opinion. Think about the source of this, and any agenda (including personal) of those in the media who commit and print  these words. I do not think it is legitimate for us to slate the media for constantly sticking the boot into Celtic and then some fans do the exact same on the scale and diatribe that I have witnessed recently against John. This is not a call for the return to Pravda, blindly happy clapping or a lack of challenge to the management team or Peter Lawwell by the fans, but neither should we in turn do the media’s bidding or work for them.

People recently criticised John for his views on the difference between playing other SPFL teams and those in Europe. Was he wrong? No, of course not. At the same time, a lot of people are getting hot under the collar as a result of the media in Scotland ignoring reality on other matters (do I really have to spell that one out?) so we cannot then stick the boot in when someone tells it like it is.

The worst he can be criticised for is being too open and failing to understand how his words will be presented.  He perhaps makes a positive statement in public too often that are for the benefit of the players (his recent “we were better than Molde” comments) that should be kept in the locker room rather than the media. However, you never see the question that a journalist poses, only the answer. You therefore cannot have full context, but we as a support should know that certain media organisations are only there to cause and report mischief. If the Celtic support become divided on the ability of a key person in the management team and start wailing hysterically for him to be sacked – job done. In my experience, Celtic are unstoppable when “as one”, and it’s this that certain people are afraid of.

I’m hesitant to mention this last part but I’ve met John a few times on social occasions and my view is that he is very intelligent, polite and frank. That’s a potent combination in the football world. It was clear to me that Celtic meant a great deal to him, notwithstanding that they made it difficult for him in his last year when it was clear he was leaving. He is clever enough to know the club are more than the suits.

 

JC-mugshot-JS57050584

So please, let’s criticise if we want to and have to, but let’s lay of the personalised and ill-informed Daily Record inspired drivel that has seen some over the top commentary recently.

 

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BJF
8 years ago

Good article. I feel there is not much priority given to evidence by some of our regular posters but I suspect that is what social media is all about. Sound off because you are angry or don’t understand decisions or haven’t been given enough info to understand why “they” decided to do whatever it is in terms of recruitment or tactics or whatever.
Anyway there are a lot of rich b’a out there and that is apparently good enough reason to hate them. Prejudice is much simpler than logic and lots more fun!

Devoy45
8 years ago

Excellent. It bothers me a lot that the anti-Celtic, anti-Deila and anti-Collins propaganda is happily regurgitated by our own fans. Many years ago, on a dreich dark day, and a 0-0 home draw, I saw Collins wave to a bunch of shy children wanting autographs and stand in the rain until he signed every one. The rest of us were trying to escape the cold rain and get home. He was a class football act as even the Huns would admit. Not everybody scores against Brazil either. He has immense knowledge of European football and is highly respected on the Continent.This is valuable for our club. I also know some of John’s family. They are all intelligent and thoughtful and speak honestly, like John Collins does. Criticise him for football reasons but leave the guff to the MSM rags.We are better than that.Excellent article, well-timed.

deadhead67
8 years ago
Reply to  Devoy45

chased out of fulham because he was crap

Ralph malph
8 years ago

I wrote a brilliant reply but its disappeared. Have to wait till I get home Great article btw.

Bgbhoy
8 years ago

What garbage. Any point I make about Collins is because I know What goes on And Collins the player fucked off for free when he could of commanded Celtic a large transfer fee so he’s a well deserved little prick imo

Cortes
8 years ago
Reply to  Bgbhoy

Hear, hear! The Maestro was a team player; Collins woul swan about then pass to a teammate in a worse position than himself, IIRC. Possession wasn’t lost from him, just from the sap he passed to.

In breaking news, the secret of what’s been troubling Ciftci can be revealed…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34979249

CeciltheLion
8 years ago
Reply to  Bgbhoy

Personally hate it when good players leave just for money. It’s irrational but it scunners me. Collins was a good player for us in a shite time. That he stayed so long is to his credit.

I’m gutted at the difference in respect that he gets compared to the other defector, Dalglish – remember him, the sporting advisor or some such mealy-mouthed role for the late huns. Much more time for JC than Dalglish.

Ronny, gtf.

Bgbhoy
8 years ago

Garbage about the transfer fee and quotes from media. Well written article but I have to massively disagree on those points

George
8 years ago

Yeah John Collins was a good player, I will agree with that. But the rubbish that comes out his mouth is something else like Celtic were a better team than malmo, you say he is a coach so tell me how a team can make the same mistakes week in week out, if I did that in my job I would be sacked, I know for sure some of the things said about John Collins is true. Please tell me what he brings to the team, I go every single week and times we are bored of the style we play, Inverness , it was that bad all we did was sing about the players who weren’t playing at the time, Cole and Allan

Bigbhoy
8 years ago

Id agree with the article wholeheartedly, a great celtic player in a poor team. Remember he scored, was it a hatrick in a euro game against German opposition, hamburg or cologne?
Still relatively young in managerial terms and like ronny should be given the chance to prove himself.

deadhead67
8 years ago
Reply to  Bigbhoy

how much time does RD need,it just gets worse and worse

andybhoy
8 years ago
Reply to  Bigbhoy

He scored one in that game against Cologne, the Maestro and slidey arse Creaney scored from a deflection off a Collins shot.

edward
8 years ago

A well written and needed article to remind people of who and what we are as a Club.
Your point about when we are “as one” we are unstoppable is exactly what our enemies don’t want to see.
Thank you

John
8 years ago

Don’t understand why he is getting so much stick. I remember him as a great player for us. Now Ronnie I understand the stick he gets, as he hasn’t got a clue

Damian Smyth
8 years ago

Good article , many frequent contributors seem to take delight in finding fault with Celtic personnel and the club itself .
I don’t know if it is our fans who feed the anti Celtic SMSM with their unhelpful half truth rumours or is it the SMSM who feed our gullible fans .

Even if Collins took the selfish decision all those years ago , it doesn’t mean he can’t help to repay the club he loved by putting his skill and knowledge to good use for the club

Monti
8 years ago
Reply to  Damian Smyth

Ferrero?

deadhead67
8 years ago

was he not a Hibs fan

Kombuchis
8 years ago

Dreadful article.
You complain about our club being attacked by the media, then attack the club yourself!!!
Ridiculous.
“It was clear to me that Celtic meant a great deal to him,notwithstanding that they made it difficult for him in his last year when it was clear he was leaving”
Sorry, but that’s bollocks.
The Bosman ruling allowing freedom of movement of a player between EU clubs at the end of a contract came in to effect in late 95.
Collins moved to Monaco in 96 after saying publicly he was keen to sign another deal, although there was plenty claim, counter claim and posturing by McCann, Burns and Collins himself on that score.
McCann’s gripe was that Monaco, the club where Collins was moving to, was not (and still isn’t) part of the EU as it was/is a principality governed by a monarchy and not the government of the EU member France.
Therefore any transfer to Monaco under the Bosman rule could be challenged due to the Bosman ruling being for clubs in EU countries.

Whilst the ruling was that Monaco’s membership of the French league granted them EU status as a club, one needs only to look at more recent reparations paid by Monaco to the FFF to allow them to play in the French league.
In short, McCann was correct to pursue a non EU club benefitting from an ruling exclusive to EU nations in order to gain compensation for an asset. He had Celtics, and admittedly his own, interests at heart, and rightly so.
To say Celtic made it difficult for Collins (and who do you mean by “Celtic”? McCann, Hay, Burns, Stark, the fans?) is to rewrite history.

Poor again from this site.

Simply because Collins was a great player doesn’t make him a competent coach either. And to compare the Collins move (he was 28 and had knocked contracts back to go and play in a tax haven) to that of Larsson (33 years old, 7 seasons, moved to the biggest club in World, won a European cup with new club, moved with the blessing of manager, board & fans) is ridiculous.

schoosh71
8 years ago

John Collins was a wonderful football player, who could hold his own against any company on a pitch. He dedicated his life to the game and was a perfect pro, he is the prototype of what we want to be bringing through the academy, along with a couple of Paul McStay’s. NOBODY on a CFC blog anywhere in the world, is qualified to judge the merits of John Collins couching ability. And lets be clear not all Celtic supporter ‘in the nicest possible way’ are that bright. HH

mike
8 years ago

Nobody would argue that John Collins was not a good footballer,however there seems to be a tendency on social media that says if you do not agree with my point of view then you are some how of reduced intellect.Well i do not read the gutter press and like to form my own opinians and my view is that john collins speaks rubbish,just like his boss,from diets to high pressing football to we shall never change our system or shape,really? well i beleive that when you play as much football as some of our senior players do then you must adapt to whatever comes in front of you.But what do i know?Im not that bright.

Brendan
8 years ago

Great article Desi,

I’m poorly informed to comment on Collins, Deila, Kennedy etc.
I don’t know what their strengths and weaknesses are nor their personality types.
Hopefully they’ll come good as it seems to me they’ve taken more stick than is fair.
I get the impression they’re considerably more talented and harder working than Lenny, dolph and parker and tomo, and hope they prove me right while at Celtic.
Remember the grief Bergett got while at CP…and then how well he played against us twice, I hope we don’t get that with Ronny, as I think he’s going to succeed, it’s just a matter of where and when.

Lawell said he’s here for the foreseeable, so why don’t we get right behind hem and see what can be achieved – It’s also more fun that way, for me and my family at least.

DanThe Man
8 years ago
Reply to  Brendan

Like , Brendan ☘☘☘

DanThe Man
8 years ago
Reply to  Brendan

Some people on this site are going to have to eat some massive Humble Pie . When Ronny takes us into the CL wins the treble to get us into the competition and does it with a group of players including youngsters from our own youth set up . That after all is what every Celtic Supporter wants but none of his predecessors were prepared to give youth a chance because they were afraid of failure and the type of criticism on this site is what breeds that fear.

There are some really good young players coming through whether bought or reared and I can’t wait to see them flourish. Scott Allan in particular, he has the potential to be another Dalglish , Rogic Bitton Tierney Simunovlc Armstrong GMS Forrest Griffiths Henderson McGregor Christie add in one or two experienced players between now and the summer and another couple from the youth set up what is there not to like. Ronny will have gathered the raw material to build a really good exciting young side and they will have experience of another successful season behind them .A wee bit of faith is what is needed from The Faithfull Through and Through.

andybhoy
8 years ago
Reply to  DanThe Man

Oh dear.

Monti
8 years ago
Reply to  andybhoy

HAA HAA HAA LOL

DanThe Man
8 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Heh Heh Heh !!! ☘☘☘

CeciltheLion
8 years ago
Reply to  DanThe Man

There’s little chance that many will flourish under Deila. He’ll turn on them like he’s done so many times before. His man-management skills are non-existent and he’s got no development plan for any of these guys. Reduce the wage bill, let’s send Henderson out on loan; Injuries, maybe we’ll try McGregor again. He makes it up as he goes along and he doesn’t do that very well.

CeciltheLion
8 years ago
Reply to  Brendan

Life’s far too short to get behind Deila anymore. He’s a cluelsss imposter. Any of the senior players will tell you that which is why their performances are all over the shop. He’ll cripple the club for years unless we get rid. There’s no time to spare.

Monti
8 years ago
Reply to  CeciltheLion

Cecil,
I tip my black beret to you sir.

DanThe Man
8 years ago
Reply to  CeciltheLion

So you have insider knowledge of the players at CP? Maybe you do but then it depends which players your are talking to, wouldn’t be Stokes per chance? Most of the players I have seen in quotation marks recently seem to think pretty highly of Ronny . You comment on his introduction of McGregor back into the team ,two points we have lost 3 or 4 first picks recently so he has had to go back into the pool and 2 McGregor has scored 2 goals in 2 games since his return . Maybe Ronny knows a little more watching him in training every day and the time was right to bring him back. More like Lenny than Cecil The Lion?

Southside
8 years ago

Why do any of us read the Daily Record ? The best way to deal with the divisive shite that it prints is to gnome it completely and therefore not to get sucked into its game of “reporting” the views of Celtic people.

8 years ago

Desi mond very good article on j c . I agree with you 100 per cent it has become personal for some supporters to have a go at him . He is a celtic man through and through . Always has been .

Charlie Saiz
8 years ago

Collins like Deila has been getting it in the neck from day one from some within the Support.
Strachan got the same shite as did Sammy now Efe and to a certain extent now Johansen.
It’s just the way it is I feel some folk no matter who are never happy.
I have no issue with JC he’s at Celtic because he clearly wants to be.

Reykjavik shuggy
8 years ago

there are some on here who think it’s terrible to put down an ex Celtic player because of his comments he made in an anti celtic agenda driven newspaper,but it’s fair game to abuse an ex Celtic player who is assistant manager..

delbhoy
8 years ago

Most of it comes from what the hibs players said about him ad boss , fantastic player in his day

Abu O'Donnell
8 years ago

As soon as someone, in a discussion about football says ” I read it in the paper”, I switch off. I know it will be crap in most cases.

I often think of the times past when I was influenced by the rags. Not any more. Not for a very long time. Especially these last 8 years or so. The Scottish football press and punditry are an irrelevance along with TV, esp the BBC sport with the few exceptions such as Michael Stewart.
There is NOTHING these embittered wallopers can enhance our football with. They have no real knowledge of the game save for being wise after the event.
Yet some of us still fall into the trap. Perhaps it’s force of habit from long years of reading and hoping that one day they’ll show balance.
I try to go over past games and events where we were disappointed and review them under the Cheating microscope. I often have a completely different view now of these matches and players when I realise the impossible odds they had to overcome. That they succeeded at times is a testament to their spirit.

Chas D
8 years ago

And why do we give a shit about supporters of Hibernian or any club for that matter think ?

Macca
8 years ago

Great player,undoubtedly;cant comment on coaching ability (tho assume decent); totally (and surprisingly) naive in front of journalists so comes across as a knob! Wise up John.

Monti
8 years ago

Anybody else’s post go missing tonight?

BroxburnBhoy
8 years ago

Collins was a very good player, one of the few, in a trough period for us. He served Celtic well in the seasons he stayed and played. He left to further his playing career and earn more money in Monaco. Now he is back at Celtic a Celtic man coaching the first team, very few of whom are as good as he was as a player, hopefully to his standard! I remember the people in the jungle near where I stood bawling abuse at Celtic players during games which we won easily for the slightest and fewest of errors. I often wondered why they came simply to constantly scream abuse at our own players. I’m sure you all have heard it. As far as I knew none of them had any football management or professional playing experience yet they were very hard on the players. in the end I concluded they were arseholes and ignored them.

BondiBrian
8 years ago

Good article. Its no so much about how good a player he was/ how nice a guy he is/ how much a Tim he is or isn’t…its aboot the abuse some on this site and other Celtic sites hurl at Celtic players/coaches. MSM must be rubbing their hands & dancing on the spot with glee.

Gerard Donnelly
8 years ago

well said , i fully agree

CeciltheLion
8 years ago

I see Stevie Clarke’s newly available. Has to be a whole lot better bet than Deila.

CeciltheLion
8 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

For starters, Deila’s well out of his depth. Evidence, the last two seasons. Next, Clarke’s been an able assistant at top clubs for a long time assisting managers like Gullit, Morinho (may he rot in hell), Dalglish (him too), Grant. He had success at West Brom, finishing in their best league position in over 30 years. Took Reading to an FA Cup semi ultimately being sacked because he spoke to Fulham about their vacancy.

He understands man management and tactics – an area where Deila fails to shine. He’s got planning skills evidenced by his support of some top managers whose planning skills are legendary. Manages on a relative shoestring budget and can spot a player again evidenced by his roles at top clubs. Spoken of highly by top players. Delia might want to take note of the latter point who’s spoken off by top player is Scotland but not highly.

CeciltheLion
8 years ago
Reply to  CeciltheLion

“of” and “in” in last sentence, not “off” and “is”

DanThe Man
8 years ago
Reply to  CeciltheLion

Steve Clark was not even that good as an assistant and has been a complete failure in management. Of course mention him in the same breath as The Chosen One and he must be great except I don’t have any respect for Mouriho so his second in command probably picked up some pretty bad habits. I won’t forget the way M’s team cheated in Seville and his people management skills are going to end up in court with the Doctor. Clark is a flop don’t foist him on Celtic. If you told me Ancelotti was available and wanted to come to Celtic then I might back down but leave Ronny to get on with his job in the meantime.

DanThe Man
8 years ago
Reply to  CeciltheLion

Why what has Steve Clark won in his managerial career ? Just another Davy Moyes traveller ,man of many clubs and no silverware to show for it stop punting these Nono’s for Celtic. Just tosh.

Tex
8 years ago

Don,t see Clarke being any improvement over what we have.His record as an assistant coach is great ,his record as a manager is abysmal.

Spectrum is Green
8 years ago

I’m not sure about JC as an Assistant Manager or whatever he is, but he was a damned good player.

The goals at Ibrox are well remembered, but I was lucky to be at Brockville in 1992 to see him seal a 5-4 win for 10-man Celtic with a brilliant shot after his initial free-kick was blocked by the wall; the best one-two I’m ever likely to see!

JC was Quality.

Devoy45
8 years ago

Dan the Man is The Man as far as I’m concerned. Eating humble pie is something I did when I realised that Deila was/is no Mowbray. I had wanted Deila out. I had also wanted Mowbray in! Many on this site would never be humble (or wise) enough to admit a mistake. I understand what the anti-Deila Tims are saying because like me, they are passionate about our team but I think they are being unfair and are mistaken. We need to win the league before we can win in Europe and unlike every manager for the last 30 years, Deila is the only one to give youth a chance and I can see these young lions learning how to win in Europe. Big Jock made a team over three years and I see no reason why Deila can’t do it. He is learning. So are our players. Losing is one way you can learn. We can learn to win domestically so our youth can also learn to win in Europe. If I am wrong, I will eat all the humble pie you force me to eat. If I am right, will you do the same? I am amazed though at the mediocre names put forward to replace Deila, beginning with the inept David Moyes. Clarke? FFS

DanThe Man
8 years ago
Reply to  Devoy45

Keep the Faith Devoy 45 and it will happen ☘☘☘

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