Thirty years ago today.
It’s incredible to think it was that long ago, but then they say you never truly die until the last person alive has spoken your name for the last time.
If that’s the case, Shankly was right. Jock Stein truly is immortal.
September 10 1985, Ninian Park , Cardiff..
I was working in a hotel at the time, and we had the game on the telly in the kitchen. We kept half an eye on the score, but as the tragic events unfolded, everyone , no matter their background, crowded around the screen, silent.
Approaching my twentieth birthday, I felt like a relative had died. For those of us who were around then, it was our John F Kennedy moment, or John Lennon .
Why are they always called John ?
The Celtic View have their tribute this week, there is the tv programme which was doing the rounds on BBC Alba.
Or you could pick up the Jock Stein biography, affectionately put together by Archie MacPherson.
Or you could just remember him in your own way.
He wouldn’t have wanted all the fuss anyway.
He could be remembered in some of his words, s, which many would do to recall today;
On being a Celtic player;
“My proudest moment? Every Friday morning when I look at the board at Celtic Park and see my name on the team sheet for tomorrow’s game.”
“Unlike many other Celts, I cannot claim that Celtic was my first love … but I can say that it will be my last love.”
On being Celtic manager;
“The secret of being a good manager is to keep the six players who hate you away from the five who are undecided.”
“I’m happy where I am, I like the people I work with, I like the players and the directors of this club but most of all I like the fans and to see them happy makes me happy,so I’m very happy here.”
“The most pleasure any manager can get is seeing everyday boys joining the Club as youngsters and growing into men and giving themselves a better social standing than they could ever have dreamed of previously.”
On the press, when they were late :
“If they were interested in what I had to say they would get here in time. The door stays shut!”
On the club;
“We like to think that whoever we play, we are a football team, nothing more. We are a football team who will play anyone from anywhere, from any walk of life, from any religion, from any creed. That is Celtic Football Club.”
and after Lisbon…
“There is not a prouder man on God’s Earth than me at this moment. Winning was important, aye, but it was the way that we have won that has filled me with satisfaction. We did it by playing football. Pure, beautiful, inventive football. There was not a negative thought in our heads. Inter played right into our hands; it’s so sad to see such gifted players shackled by a system that restricts their freedom to think and to act. Our fans would never accept that sort of sterile approach. Our objective is always to try to win with style.”
God Rest Him
There will be a short pause while the author nips out for a cigarette and gathers his thoughts.
Meanwhile, here’s some music…
big jock Stein, by charlie and the bhoys
One man who has recognised at least one of the above quotes is Scott Allan, who is settling into life at Celtic. He spoke of the banter that’s been hurled around since he decided to leave Hibernian for life in the fast lane;
“It has not been too bad . I thought it might have been a bit worse, but it has been fine.
“I have kept my head down and got on with my football.
“There have been a couple of things said but nothing too bad, there hasn’t been any malice.
“There has been a lot of humour to be fair, with friends of friends and all that but I knew it was coming so it has not affected me at all to be honest.
“It is just good to be at a big club.”
and he’s looking ahead with a surprisingly mature attitude;
“The Champions League was a bit of a disappointment as we didn’t go through but obviously Fenerbahce and Ajax are big European clubs so there are some big fixtures there and there are still teams to drop out the Champions League so potentially there are some really good games there for the fans.
“We just have to get through the group. Fenerbahce has a really strong team, Ajax have been doing well so hopefully we can give a good account of ourselves and pick up some points.”
There a lot of games coming up so I think everybody will get a chance and it is up to me to take my chance when given it.
“When I signed I said I needed to be patient and I will wait for my chance to come.”
September is going to be an interesting month;
Celtic will be fighting on three fronts, and everyone will have to pull their weight.
Allan, hauled in to talk about the game, is ready to slap down the challenge from the north, if called upon;
“It’s one of those games we need to go up there and win to put a marker down for the rest of the season.
“Psychologically, when you come up against your nearest opponent, winning those games puts a doubt in their head that they can catch you.
“This early in the season, it’s a good game to go up there and put something down early. Hopefully, we will go there and get the three points.”
He even gave the Dons a little bit of respect, which was nice;
“It’s going to be a tough game because it’s always a hard game going to Pittodrie. In the last few years, they’ve built a strong squad. The bench is strong with guys coming on and they’ve had a good start, similar to Hearts. I’d say the two of them have chances to have right good seasons.”
Compare Allans words, well thought out and interesting, to Charlie Adam, who said last night that the reason Scotland did so poorly in Georgia was because of the post match flight chaos.
A career at Sky sports is almost assured.
Aberdeen have won their first five games, and a lot of their support will be forced to use their other hand to work out what comes next if Saturdays game goes their way.
Manager Derek McInnes, who has done very well at the club if you don’t count Europe, or the cups last season, looked ahead to the game, and discounted the record of five wins in the grand scheme of things;
“No one will really remember the records with this team, we want the team to be remembered for winning trophies, that’s your best gauge of success.
“It’s been a good start but we feel there is more to come. We managed to beat Celtic a couple of times the season before last but last season we didn’t and that doesn’t sit well with us.
“We have decent records against every other team in the league but Celtic were the one team we had problems getting results against.
“The performances against them were by and large not too bad but we haven’t managed to get winning performances against then.
“Saturday is all about the result more than the performance. We are looking for improvement.
“We are better equipped as a squad to deal with the challenges this season.
“I’ve said that the squad we have has been stronger in every season we’ve been here but nothing has changed from last season in that we are confident.
Celtic are a good side and they will want to come up to Pittodrie and prove it. But we’ve got a lot of players playing with confidence, a squad playing with confidence and Pittodrie will be rocking. We are ready for the game.”
I’ve read his statement twice, and it doesn’t make a great deal of sense. I think the occasion is getting to him. He’s not used to being in charge of a team that’s doing well, bless him.
Jozo Simunovic, the young Croatian signed to replace virgil van dijk has already written himself into the record books..
Nought to booked in eight seconds –
Celtic’s Jozo Simunovic sets UEFA record for fastest yellow
card
Well, there’s something for Wilie Collum, Bobby Madden and Andrew Dallas to try to better. The poor sod will be booked on Friday night for turning the telly over when his wife is watching Big Brother.
We may have got our baby eating centre half after all….though I’ve no idea why he was booked. And i’m not paying a Herald subscription either. It was bad enough paying for English football via sky, so there’s no chance of contributing towards the wages of one or two of their hacks.
But will he start against Aberdeen ? The men from the north will fancy their chances if too many new players are started at once, and the big Croat hasn’t even been officially unveiled yet, due to his international commitments. That won’t happen until this afternoon, and he needs to behave. another booking as he walks across the car park could see him suspended.
Pat Bonnar, an ambassador for league sponsors Ladbrokes, agrees that it might be too early for the new man;
‘Celtic won’t lose too many games but they face a big task at the moment in trying to see how the new defenders – Simunovic and Blackett – can fit into the team. If Aberdeen are to do something, now is absolutely the time to do it.
He means Saturday, of course. It would be silly to do it now. Two days before the game, as the result wouldn’t count.
But he’s looking forward to the game as much as the rest of us;
‘I’m looking forward to seeing how Simunovic fits in, He’s young and has a big, big price tag on his head for a 21-year-old defender so Celtic need him to be able to replace van Dijk.
‘Virgil had to go when he did as he wouldn’t have been happy to be hanging around after Celtic missed out on the Champions League. He made the right decision for him – and Celtic got good money – but the new guy has to work out.
‘He’s only going to arrive this week and there’s a worry the Aberdeen game will come too soon.
‘He has a good reputation and they obviously believe in him to have spent that money on him.
‘Finding the right people within the budget is the big issue in Scotland, though. And while it is a wee bit of a gamble I’m not sure there were many alternatives. There aren’t many who are ready in Scotland and it’s difficult to get someone from England without paying huge money.’
Ah, Virgil. Remember him ? He told Inside Futball, the magazine in search of a spellchecker, that leaving Celtic was “tough”…
Ah, bless him.
“ It’s been tough, the transfer was finished on Tuesday, I trained twice with the team and then i was supposed to have the weekend off, but I got a call from the national team that i was called up. It’s been busy, with lots of travelling, but I’m here, and fit and ready for anything. “
You know, I genuinely thought he meant something else.
It was September 1979 in yesterdays picture, when it was a mere £2 to sit in the stand. Wouldn’t get you a bovril today.
going further back, how many of these bright young things can you name ?
Shall we do a wee quiz question ?
Or, of course, we could just pull up a chair, grab a beer, and talk about Jock…..
Big Jock Truly immortal HH
Jock Stein RIP. I m too young to remember him in his life, but of course I know my history, and am struck by the determination he had to play football the right way and to bring young players through, something fans hold onto even today.
I m also struck by how he grew up a Rangers fan in a Rangers family, but once he joined Celtic that was irrelevant to our fans and he after spending time representing us grew to understand, respect and love our club and what it means to so many people.
The way he was given a rather demaning role in the Celtic pools rather than a seat on the board due to his background is not something we can look back on with pride, thank fully the club and society has moved on from that.
He will live forever in the hearts of Celtic fans and we can still learn from him in terms of how we present our club to the outside world and how we integrate youth players into the first team set up. HH
Stein’s job offer re-the Pools had nothing to do with his “background”.
The families who owned Celtic were used to total control in the boardroom .
They knew Jock would never be a “yes” man , and the last thing they wanted was a man of Stein’s stature and popularity , causing waves , when he felt they weren’t acting in the club’s or the fans best interests.
Stein on their board would have been their worst nightmare.
The sectarian reason you have just quoted , was invented by the smsm to excuse the sectarian policies at play over at Ibrox;
“both as bad as each other”, shite.
Stein was never getting on that board even if he’d been the Pope’s brother.
Don’t perpetuate that ” sectarian ” lie.
I agree with you but go easy on Elcormarco, he’s already said he wasn’t even born then.
Morto,
don’t you think it’s even more disconcerting that an obviously loyal Celtic fan such as Elcormarco has gone his whole life (since he wasn’t born then) believing this slur to be true.
“rather than a seat on the board due to his background is not something we can look back on with pride ”
My point is simply , yes Elcormarco , I believe you and I can look back with pride , without any guilt or embarrassment regarding sectarian agendas at our club.
My strength of feeling on this subject is guided towards the slur , not towards Elcormarco , as I’m sure he understands ; after all , if I’m correct , then surely that’s good news for Elcormarco and any other fans who thought there was truth to the sectarian rumour.
Sadly I was only seven when Jock passed away so didn’t much understand what was going on, nor can I claim to have been privileged to watch his teams play or have been able to appreciate a Celtic manager of such esteem. So I’ll have to bow to my elders and let them have the floor, and doff my cap in respect to a true Celtic legend.
Don’t know if, on such a poignant day, it would be disrespectful to discuss the Greatest ever Celt; to my mind the only rivals to Jock would be Caesar and Jinky. Perhaps those of my generation would look to the likes of Burns, McStay or Henrik but certainly its a discussion based on greatness and recollection of great memories, so perhaps not completely disrespectful.
Without Jock there would have been no Caeser, Jinky or any of the rest of them.
I had the privilege of meeting Mr.Stein in 1985, he was at the Dunfermline Museum to show off the Scottish cup that he won for Dunfermline.
I was only 14 and I couldn’t speak to him, I just gave him my Celtic poster to sign which was in the ‘ Match ‘ magazine, he signed it send I had it on my bedroom wall for years.
This must have been very close to the Wales game, great childhood memory and I only have one regret, that I didn’t have the courage to speak to him.
R.I.P. jock Stein!
Where’s the picture at the end of the post? Have you started early?
I was working in England when Big Jock died but it hit people down there pretty hard too. He was also a hero to the people of the English mining communities. I’m not sure a Big Jock is possible in the modern football era but he changed the way the game is played. Total football? I’d say so. RIP Big Fella. “John, you’re immortal.”
Sat in the living room, a 13 year old boy, celebrating with his dad at Scotland making it to Mexico ’86. The elation was short-lived as Big Jock was being carried up the tunnel. Time seemed to slow down and I looked at my dad, can of Tennants lager in his hand, some blonde lassie on the side. My dad stood up, unable to move, not being able to take in what was going on. It seemed like an age to find out what had happened and the waiting time has eroded from memory but the announcement has not.
The words were spoken and could not be undone. My dad, born in 1940 and had lived through the days where silverware was sparse. Jock had changed that for him… for everyone of that generation. Jock Stein had made something my dad loved so much so wonderful, pride and love just do not cover it, no words can. I was too young to have lived through it, yet old enough to have lived it through my family.
Aimlessly, my dad stood up, looked at the dog and said “‘Mon” and he exited the back door to wander the streets with his thoughts. When he returned a good while later he merely said “There was a lot of guys out walking their dogs tonight”
Give them their due, there was a Jock Stein tribute during half time at Hampden the other night, they don’t get much right but fair to them this time.
Every time I walk passed The Beechwood ( technically my local) I smile and think of the many nights Jock and Sean would have sat in there plotting the next momentous victory while the wives rolled their eyes and said “Just tell them to give it to wee Jinky!”.
It’s difficult to explain what he did for us.
I lived in a particularly bitter wee orange pit village, as soon as we won that game on the 25th May ’67 I ran out into the street and it was like a US western film set with tumble weed blowing down the street.
He, and the Lions, walked the walk, for near a decade we were up there amongst the greats, on merit, we proudly and loudly let the world know we were there, aff the bus!!!!!!!
Rangers died chasing what he achieved, thank you for everything Jock.
HoudiniBhoy you hit the right note. I’m not quite as old as you but agree that to truly appreciate what Jock Stein did for Celtic you had to live through the abject misery of what went before. No trophies since 1957, a seemingly endless succession of 3-0 league and cup defeats by THEM and a parade of players who were not fit to wear the Hoops. Then came Big Billy’s late winner against Dunfermline at Hampden in April 1965, Big Yogi’s penalty double in the League Cup Final six months later as we proved that we could not only beat THEM in a final but also showed that we were prepared to be even more physical if we had to. After that it was magic all the way. Everlasting thanks, Jock. You were the best.
HoudiniBhoy. Sorry, that shoulc read not quite as olc as your Dad. Sadly I am a fair bit older than you – and feeling it. But it just means I have many more great memories than you.
Jock Stein turned first Dunfermline then Hibs into formidable teams and his legacy lived on for quite a number of years with those clubs. What he did for Celtic was truly remarkable, not just with the players at the club when he arrived but with the young guys who came through later. We will not see his like again.
HH
See the “glib and shameless liar” is at it again re- Hibs and Scott Allan saga.
I’m not sure he’s “right in the head”.
@jpm88, you nailed it with your explanation about big Jock not getting invited onto the board and it’s good to let other “young’uns” know that the sectarian excuse propagated by the media was a total lie.
Big Jock wouldn’t have stayed with Celtic if we had just been the “other side of the coin” of the Ibrox club. He saw that the vast majority of our fans were not sectarian bigots and that they didn’t want a club that encouraged that “tradition” (as it’s called elsewhere).
I remember a joke that was told when we were in that European Cup, 9 in a row era.
There was a match being played up in heaven, and on one of the benches their was a manager with long white hair and a white beard, shouting and screaming at his team of angels in frustration. As the game went on he was getting angrier, redder in the face and more frustrated as things weren’t working out on the pitch.
One of the souls watching the game turns to the soul next to him and asks “Who’s the guy with the white hair that’s getting so upset?”, the other soul answers “Oh, that’s God….he thinks he’s Jock Stein”.
R.I.P. Jock.
I was at the game in Cardiff that night. We didn’t know what had happened till we got into the car and switched the radio on the hear Mike England the Welsh manager say football was irrelevant tonight, a great man died. We stopped at a service station shortly after and met a coach load of supporters still celebrating as they hadn’t heard the terrible news. I told themm what had happened, the whole bus went totally silent. Such a sad sad day.
Among the many memories people have of The Great Man,nobody seems to mention that we beat the Huns three,yes that’s three times in a month.And that was at their midden as well.Happy days.Thanks for everything Mr Stein,it was a glorious time in my life and you made it so!!!!
The real point about the three games was not that we won them, but despite their all being at Ibrox, we expected to win them. So much so, that on being awarded a penalty in one of them, the ball was thrown to a young lad called Dalglish.
The whole Jock Stein era is easily summed up.
On the day he came in the door, Celtic had won nothing for seven years.
Twenty six months later they were champions of Europe.
again, when Jock came in the door, Billy McNeill was twenty five and apart from Glasgow, and Charity cup medals he had won nothing.
When he retired he was one of the most heavily decorated players anywhere.
I was supposed to go to Cardiff but my aunt died the day before big Jock. She was taken to the chapel on the night of the game and because we had people in the house, I kept going into the kitchen to listen to the match on the radio now and again. When the match ended I switched the radio off and I didn’t know about the Big Man’s sudden death. Some of the family myself included then went to our local welfare club for a quiet drink and we couldn’t believe the atmosphere in the club. It really was like another death in the family. RIP BIG JOCK. RIP AUNT JEANNIE.
I dont remember much about it, but ive got a big poster on the wall in my wee pub and i see him every day. Hail hail
I was on a ship in the middle of the Atlantic ocean when he died. Got the news the following morning from one of my fellow engineers. He told me “there’s good news & bad news what do you want 1st?” – I said “give me the bad news 1st”, he said “Jock Steins dead”. My response was “it doesn’t matter what the good news is then”.
Very sad true legend & made Celtic what we are today. He also made the tribute act what they because they died trying to emulate his European Cup.
Very true Steveo. There is a cause and effect. Jock was the cause and the Sevco sitcom is one of the effects. I don’t suppose the big man would have cared about their train crash but I do and thoroughly enjoy their pain.
Other than at her husbands funeral- my father – I never saw my mother weep as she did the night Big Jock died.
I am old enough to say I knew Him, seeing Him at Celtic Park.
When He used to come on the telly my parents used to say shushed and we would listen to Him and when He finished my father would say “now there is a man you should listen to, a man to respect”
My Mother is 92 now and still talks of Him in such high regard she would say “there has never been another one like Him from that day till now”
They will all walk in His shadow.
He made us what we are today, He gave us dignity and we stand tall against the machinations of the dark side.
There is appoint in relief and triumph where words have no place, that place is Jock Stein.
HH
I was at the game in Wales. I went on a bus from Irvine, mostly all rangers fans. We stayed in a hotel in Bristol. We were on the bus going back tuno Bristol after the game on the Severn bridge when the radio confirmed that Jock Stein was dead. Most of the lads on the bus that knew I was a Tim came up and commiserated with me. I sat there in tears and disbelieve, I think it took me a couple of weeks to get my head round it. Thank you Jock Stein. You are immortal.
I watched the match on TV then went out to a club. Didn’t hear about it until I got home about +/-3AM and was surprised my g/f was still up. From the look on her face, I thought somebody in my family back in Scotland had died (she was from Oz, but knew how much Celtic meant to me) . In fact, my Da had died only a couple of years before and – although that was worse – Big Jock was such an important figure in my life it did feel like I’d lost an uncle, or father figure. BTW: Still dead chuffed that a actual close family member of mine appears in that BBC Alba film you mentioned.
Know what u mean about losing an uncle or father figure. I saw an old interview with Jock and possibly Scott Symon (the rgrs mgrs of the time) and the interviewer asked them both about the upcoming game and what result they thought would happen. scott Symon very assuredly stated the rgrs would win 2 nothing. Jock looked at the interviewer and said “only a fool would try to predict the outcome of an old firm game” haha absolutely brilliant. I remember seeing him a few times and he was very imposing indeed. Celtic were the first non latin team to win the big cup and it had only been in the hands of Real, Benfica, Inter and perhaps AC Milan before us. It was truly a breakthrough for non latin teams. Thanks Big Jock for all you did for Celtic. He took us to two Euro cup finals and two other semi finals. Thanks to e-tims writers and editors for this site. Great stuff.
I recall watching the 1982 WC on what then was the only channel showing “Scoccer” in the USA. We had just moved house and the telys weren’t set up right. I could only get reception on a wee 10 inch black and white screen. Scotland were playing that day when the cameras panned over to the sidelines. “Come quickly kids I said to my American born toddlers.” “What is it it Daddy” they wanted to know. I replied “see that man there that’s Jock Stein, I want you to remember you saw him.” Tears were steaming down my face at the time, I have no idea what they thought was going on, I just knew it was very important that I point out a great man to them.” RIP Mr Stein.