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Celtic + Politics = Danger!

Here at Etims, we have never had any issue with someone saying their piece, even if the content could upset a group or an individual. We offer Right to Reply and comments for any feedback. That’s been suffice but recently it seems we have overstepped the mark according to quite a few requests to “Give it up!” whenever any references to the Scottish Independence referendum appear on the site, either in articles, podcasts, social media,  gags or Diary references.

Now we admit the majority of Etims support a YES vote and accept that the vast majority of any Scottish Independence Referendum references will be YES related, we make no bones about it. If you agree well that’s nice, if you don’t, that’s up to you. We aren’t going to fall out about it. The problem is however, when folk start the “I thought this was a Football site?” and react angrily whenever politics gets a mention, (or it seems, politics on the one certain subject) which kinda ticks us off.

Lets just ask the question: Celtic and Politics….related?

  • Wasn’t the club formed as a result of poverty in Glasgows East End and isn’t Poverty a direct cause of Politics? The Foodbank collections at Celtic Park 2013-14 Season, aren’t they the results of Politics?
  • Was the 1952 Tricolor (presented to the club by Eamon De Valera no less) dispute Political or just a wee daft flag thing?
  • The banning of alcohol at Scottish Football Grounds: Isn’t that Political? We could ask Ruth Davidson leader of the Scottish Conservatives given she has publically said the ban should be re-assessed.
  • Celtic fans in an open display of abuse at Margaret Thatcher: Do we say ‘Down with that sort of thing’ now?
  • Fergus McCann overthrowing the Old Board: Was that Political or just “Company stuff”
  • The SNP introducing The Offensive Behaviour Bill: undoubtedly Political and condemned openly and often on this site without any complaint… Which then prompts the question ‘Why is that deemed acceptable Politics to cover except when it is also discussing various local politicians in Celtic friendly heartlands appealing for votes by saying they will fight to repeal the Bill, but just don’t mention when the same Politicians then refuse to vote against the Bedroom Tax which affects many of same Celtic fans in those heartlands?
  • FoCUS and the harassment of the Green Brigade:  Isn’t that Political if main reason behind it is for more Police power and to strengthen Police budget claims ?
  • The Costs of attending Celtic’s games: Arent the reasons behind any increases basically due to Politics?
  • The calls for no Zero Hour Contracts and a Living Wage Implementation, duly rejected at a Celtic Park AGM:  Does it get any more Political than that?
  • The constant rejigging of kick-off times to accommodate Broadcasters, isn’t that Political with the various Competition, Licensing, Economics and Market Forces factors?
  • Protest songs sung at Celtic Park, and displays of solidarity covering events elsewhere: Have they been welcome political reactions or “just a nuisance” in today’s eyes?
  • Celtic hosting the Commonwealth Games Opening Ceremony ( and having to play CL Qualifier games at Murrayfield – Ed!) : A sporting occasion in tribute and opened by The Queen and hosting Government officials from around the Globe: Is that Political, Empirical, both or none of the above?

Consider Celtic Board members past and present :

Lord Livington of Parkhead:  Non executive Director of Celtic and Minister of State (Trade and Investment and also in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office) in Her Majestys Government. A Tory Lord who took his seat name after the poor area in which Celtic Park resides no less

Former Chairman Lord Reid of Cardowan: a former Northern Ireland Minister and Home Secretary amongst his various high profile appointments, and according to Private Eye, a man appointed to the Celtic Board, who also just happened to have connections with Security Companies when major shareholder Dermot Desmond had interest in Airport scanner contracts.

The Right Honorable Brian Wilson:  Independent Non-Executive Director, writer of the Official Celtic FC centenary history and 125 Years official History and a former Labour Minister and now an official Trade Ambassador for the UK Government.

Peter Lawwell and Eric Riley sitting on SFPA Boards : Politics or just there for the Mount Florida  biscuit selection?

 

The whole question of Sport and Politics and more specifically Celtic and Politics has been dealt with in more depth elsewhere by much better men than I, but I think it’s fair to say it’s almost impossible to separate Celtic and Politics. It is also incorrect to pick and choose Political links where personally acceptable as ultimately, Politics is involved everywhere within Celtic and its fan base. Ultimately this involvement will include the Scottish independence referendum and Etims aren’t going to ignore it.

I would suggest all fans embrace and get involved in any discussions rather than shout for them to end. Even if it is just a difference of opinion on Twitter, it is still hearty debate between Celtic fans and that’s no bad thing. Our club and its fan base are famous for refusing to blindly accept what they are told and Celts have never been backward in coming forward. Silence is not our weapon of choice.

If you don’t like Political references, then complain all you like, we wouldn’t dream of stopping you, but one way or another, there’s no avoiding them when you support Glasgow Celtic.

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Tom Parkhill
7 years ago

I tend to view it as like going to a match. You go to a game to see the football, but often you end up talking about something else. You have arguments. That’s life. What’s the alternative?

7 years ago

well said!!!

Jamie Kerr
7 years ago

well said. People shout for things to stop if the side they are on are getting a verbal doin. No one from the NO camp would be on asking for politics chat to stop if the majority of Celtic Fans shared their views.

RobertMcEwan
7 years ago

I endorse everything you say in your article, I will be voting yes, and my main reason was listening to Tommy Sheridan,and the way Scotland is always used as a guinea pig in politics ie poll tax, yes we know the forum is about football matters, if it was not for the wrong politics against the irish immigrants in Scotland there would be no Celtic

7 years ago

CELTIC and POLITICS, have been hand in hand for 126 YEARS, and will continue to be hand in hand for the next 126 YEARS, it’s in oor DNA so best deal with it, HAIL HAIL, OURSELVES ALONE+

greenmaestro
7 years ago

There’s not much in life isn’t political from the pound in our pocket, to the products we consume.

I mean it’s hard enough to drive at 98mph in Englandshire, what with the cost of petrol, and now they’ve gone and put the boy racer tax up too.

Sport and politics are also cosy bed partners, when we have large organisations like FIFA and EUFA offerring huge incentives for countries to line each others pockets. Then the very Commonwealth games (a bit of a misnomer), it does the exact opposite of what it says on the tin (by that I mean the wealth is not and never has been common) and it’s pretty much named after the political ideology of the post imperial notion that aparently still bonds these countries together.

Celtic fans are as much involved in politics in relation to attanding games and supporting a team. From the VAT on merchandise, the transport to from the game, the crowd control measures and the views on the SFA cabal.

Peoples religious views slant opinions, but their political views do too, even the folks who claim not to be interested in politics.

I wanted to do a wee pissing in or out of the tent metaphor but it was just too messy. So how about we just let each other get on with pishing in any direction but try and not pish on each others shoes.

greenmaestro
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

When it comes to talking pish, I am a master.

I find talking pished a little harder.

Shug
7 years ago

What shocks me is that their are actual Celtic fans that want to stay in the UK.

Totally baffling, obviously these are the same cretins that rupture a sphincter whenever the Green Brigade raise their heads above the parapet.

I would rather if this folk would stay away from Parkhead and return to the days of the Jungle.

pensionerbhoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

Desi

I did!!!

H H

7 years ago

Always worth pointing out the overt celebrations and commemorations of the life & death of Nelson Mandela in football stadia around the land, all widely praised. A short while after pictures of Sands and Wallace were bitterly condemned for bringing politics into football. The hypocrisy is amazing at times.

greenmaestro
7 years ago
Reply to  Board67

The very reason everyone needs to be political.

I hope all find UKIP as detestable as I do, but they have a Scottish MEP now, because only 30% of those eligable could be arsed to actually go and put an X in a box on the day of that election.

Vin The Tim
7 years ago

Given that it’s the biggest political decision this generation of Scottish people will make I’m surprised it’s not debated/mentioned more on this site !

Honestly a once in a lifetime opportunity to decide if you are Scottish or British….over to you fholks

PS Best of luck to the Yes Campaign from ‘An Irishman Abroad’ 🙂

7 years ago

Most Catholic people recognise liberal fascism even when it hides in specious nationalism. Get back to soccer.

bondibrian
7 years ago
Reply to  joe barrett

Catholic/liberal/fascism/nationalism…all open to healthy debate but FFS its called football, no soccer.

mattgallscot
7 years ago

Here here.

7 years ago

feck aw’ the hunz inat

deadhead67
7 years ago

Don,t understand why any celtic fan would support an snp policy given they brought in the offensive behaviour at football to get celtic fans,and if you don,t believe me then one of their cabinet said it in holyrood,don,t ask me her name I hat the snp and pay little attention to their racist bigoted policies JUST VOTE NO TO THE TARTAN TORIES

deadhead67
7 years ago

All you half wits voting yes,what kind of so called Independent country are going to get,keep the royal scrounger,just to appease the orange zombies keep the pound,lose thousdands, , of civil service jobs stay in nato
keep astate murdering army,scotland the most bigoted little countey in the world
JUST VOTE NO

Celtic125
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

Well, that’ll be the end of that argument Desi. Saved me fae slapping him.

Pat
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

That link Desi disnae work. Typo?

BeijingBhoy
7 years ago

Yes Desi Mond. Well said.
Let’s make the Butcher’s Apron redundant.
YES!

Hail hail

holy sea
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

Excellent piece Des.
The Diary and Specials always deliver.Politics has been part
and parcel of our club since it’s inception.
As for Sevco,the 3’rd strip’s a joke.But,what’s even funnier is
their sponsor Red32.Not only is it a socialist United Ireland,but
also Red is appropriate for them,as they are always in the Red
financially.

pensionerbhoy
7 years ago

Desi

How did you mange to read my diary comment before I had even posted it?

I just wish I had seen this before writing that comment. It would have been two biscuit tins.

I, for my many sins and other things, now live on the other side of that crumbly wall in Northumberland – no Polish brickies up here. So, I have no vote in September. I have long argued that this vote will be taken on a blank canvass. Neither Mr. Yes or Mr. No provides a clear understanding about what kind of Scotland they intend giving to the people after the decision is taken. Will all the benefits currently experienced in Scotland remain once the country is self sufficient or will a reduced economy not allow for such perceived liberalism? Will further education, for example, continue to be free for indigenous Scots? That is only one unanswered question among several.

However, I would be inclined to vote yes for two very general but simple reasons. The first is that in the current global environment, all countries are totally interdependent. No one nation can possibly stand absolutely alone. But that, for me, only strengthens the need to be free from the coat-tails of any other country no matter the historical or economic affiliations. That is why I think Scots, at least in principal, should take the plunge and begin to learn to stand on their own two feet no matter how painful.

My second reason is the reaction of the rest of the UK to a No vote. There is a widespread belief, most especially in England, that Scotland is favoured in Britain. That she receives somewhat more than her fair share. In fact, there have been voices for quite a long time now, but growing louder by the day, demanding that Scotland be brought in line with the rest of the U.K. with regard to per capita spending. That education and health and social care be put on an “equal footing”. It is my gut feeling that increasing resentment in this “green and pleasant land” might easily turn to jealous and misguided revenge given a vote for allegiance to Westminster. If I were living in Scotland post a No vote in September, I would be investing in a super-hardened groin protector. I get the feeling there will much goolly kicking if Yes loses out.

H H

pensionerbhoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

Desi

I have worked much of this potential out for myself but it would help others if someone on the Yes side would spell it out before September. If I was voting I would just need that little bit of reassurance that there is a viable future. From down here it looks like more politicking than facts – aye the way, I suppose.

But, like I said, in the final analysis, I would take my chances just to be free from the impositions of Westminster – I would be right behind a campaign to free the North East and North West of England too.

I also think the vox pop would have a more effective say in a small country with a less diverse and more compact population. Gees, down here you go 20 miles and you would think you were in a foreign country – sorry, I forgot. For me it is 🙂

Ach, as long as that away strip doesn’t replace the hoops 🙂

H H

Graeme Menzies
7 years ago

For all Celtic fans who attend and sing about the freedom of Ireland, yet will vote No in this referendum, will you continue to sing about another country’s freedom yet deny your own?

kenthehorse
7 years ago

Deadheid has to be a sevconian in Tims clothing.hes moved on from ranting about NL to having a bizarre rant about the SNP.YES isnt an endorsement of the SNP or their policies.

pensionerbhoy
7 years ago
Reply to  kenthehorse

kenthehorse

Aye, poor soul thinks its jist his heid that’s dead.

H H

TheProvocativeH
7 years ago

I showed Maggie the red card in 1988 and I’m devoting a whole chapter to it in my memoirs…..Celtic cannot afford to be apolitical these days, we would be naive to engage an isolation policy lest we receive the thin edge of the political wedge on all sorts of fronts. Anyway, many a pub conversation covers football and politics – if I dont like the chat, I can change the conversation or remember its my round.

FrancoBarese
7 years ago

The referendum debate should be just that- a debate, where people have the opportunity to make an informed decision. The current scaremongering from the media regarding the consequences of independence are disgusting. The union is not a union of compassion by the English, this is a union of expediency. England has a testing ground from everything from the Poll Tax to nuclear weapons and experimental reactors. Bases on Clyde for the nuclear fleet well away from the population of London but an asses roar from Glasgow.
Oil wealth that will keep the highest rate of taxes for the oligarchs low, so much so that reports such as the McCrone Report had to be suppressed for years.
A vote yes is not a vote Yes is not a vote for the SNP, they have stated they will hold elections following independence.
Labour are keen for a union to improve their likelihood of forming a Westminister government given the high historical Labour vote that Scotland returns. This is the parliament party and the national executive committee serving their own ends.
What I would vote isn’t really the issue, the importance is that voters should have informed themselves prior to casting their vote.
You wouldn”t trust the MSM to give you the truth about Celtic, why would you trust them to give a fair account of what would occur in an independent Scotland.

Charlie Saiz
7 years ago

My personal take is Football should stick to the Sporting Arena and Politics should stick to the Political Arena.
Mix the two and all you end up with is disaster.

I used to be quite political in my youth going to games but I have since grown up and realised I enjoy watching what happens on the Park regardless of what sh#te is going on off it.

Charlie Saiz
7 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Ps It would have been a NO from me but some fanny in a suit decided my being born and raised a Scot was not enough justification for me having a say seeing as I reside in England.

Utter bollocks.

Independence in the current financial climate would be complete and utter folly in my opinion.
Ask me again in 10 years I might have changed my mind on that but hey I don’t have a vote or a crystal ball.

Charlie Saiz
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

I live in the UK and vote EVERY YEAR there are local or General Elections Desi I don’t moan about the fact another Party might get in however as at the end of the day that is based on a Democratic decision made by us all.
I am Scottish,was born and raised a Scot and left in my late Teens to secure better employment.
I have been a Tax Payer and paid my way through the best part of nearly 3 decades and yet because I reside in the South this deems me unable to vote on MY COUNTRIES future?
The vote should have been extended to Scots on the Electoral role across the UK in my opinion as there are a great many who would vote have no place to do so.
Again all that aside leaving the UK in the current Global Financial climate is a nonsense and a massive gamble.
Just an opinion of course because that is all I have thanks to those that sorted the Voting out.
By the way as a Roman Catholic I also have major worries about an already small minded wee Country run by Bigots becoming even smaller and insular through Independence.

verde
7 years ago

shug called me a creatin because i say no to independance!
well shug you sound like one of the reason why i will not vote yes and have my country run by egotistic maniacs

Bawsman
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

I doubt very much if Boris will lead anything in his career higher than he is now……then again, we get Salmond and Sturgeon so you never know.

I get it that Salmond and Sturgeon may not run the country but it’s scary that fellow Scot’s vote for them.

7 years ago
Reply to  Bawsman

Scarier than 50 years of Labour self preservation and public neglect?

Scarier than a Calton male life expectancy?

Scarier than Tory rule yet only 1. MP

Harry
7 years ago

Football and politics voting yes would be like celtic wanting to leave the EPL to set up a scottish league

Tom O'Neill
7 years ago

Let’s not forget DD’s alleged donations to a political party and Lord Livingstones public support for Tory Benefit cuts.

Bawsman
7 years ago
Reply to  Tom O'Neill

Where is that argument leading us Tom?

7 years ago
Reply to  Tom O'Neill

Im sure Desmond got his 50k for a seat at breakfast with Davie C worth and Lord Livingstons presence at number 10 noted..im sure with his dad being a GP his thoughts on future change for Scottish NHS would be interesting

Jimbhoy
7 years ago

Be careful what we wish for … Either way.
I don’t mind a bit of political banter … With realists who can see potential pro’s & con’s for both sides …. Which there inevitably always will be. That’s politics for you.

Me … I am still undecided but there is one thing I am sick of and that is the continued comparison to other countries such as Norway, Denmark, Finland, etc.

I live in Scotland but work in Scandanavia – biggest difference is the people (including the politicians) and their social behaviour. Not to mention their fiscal model, export industry, etc.

Charlie Smith
7 years ago

Is it Desi Mond or Alex Salmond replying to folk tonight. Hard to tell the difference. Sorry forgot Salmond claims to be as Jambo.No doubt you condone the cyber bullying today against JK Rowland

Charlie Smith
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

Who is them? Didn’t know about death threats to Nicola Sturgeon, that is terrible. I am all for debate but Cyber Nat Lovers like you are more focused on someone like me with a different opinion than you. I am fully focused on the debate. It is you who is a sensationalist

7 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Smith

Them…the Media. Did you seek clarification when Johan Lamont called Yes fans a Virus or Alastair Flipper Darling agreed that Nationalists were at heart Nazis.

I have only offered facts and debate. Have you?

JonjoKSG
7 years ago

This Deadhead fellow may be a troll. However the article is interesting and agree with the points made. Most of the comments above are salient and come from conviction and well considered. Yes.

Carntyne
7 years ago

What can I say?

How about… VoteYes and be a Nation again!

andy docherty
7 years ago

If you run a company and have 4 shops and 3 are doing well but the 4th isn’t and is being subsidised by the other 3 and you get a request from the management of the loss making shop to have a buy out, what would you do. For years this shop has been draining resources from the other shops, so you’d sell it, it’s common sense.
The English have been telling us Scots for as long as I can remember that we are being subsidised (Barnett), yet when we decide we no longer wish to be subsidised, suddenly we are told how valuable we are to the union. One public educated Tory after another being trotted out to tell me that they want to keep Scotland as past of the UK.
Why, we’re a drain on resources?
What is it the Tories are scared of if Scotland votes YES?
Has the oil revenue been fairly distributed across the UK or has it been concentrated on London and the surrounding areas?
Where will they site Trident (never mind afford to pay for it)? If it’s as safe as they claim, surely the Thames estuary would be perfect for siting Trident.
Scotland autonomous will be a much fairer, more socialist place to live.
A YES vote is not a vote for SNP.
A YES vote might allow the Scottish Labour party to become a socialist party once again once freed from the shackles of The UK Labour Party.
What we’ve got isn’t working, so why not make a change.
Vote YES

kevlar
7 years ago
Reply to  andy docherty

well said. my comments to all no voters that say they dont want to vote yes to SNP is that, you are not voting for SNP you are voting for an independant scotland. this does not mean alex salmond will be the leader of scotland after 2016 when the scotish elections would be taking place. great comments desi. yes vote from me

7 years ago

Good points and I’d agree.

If I wanted to be nasty I’d quote Brecht…

“The worst illiterate is the political illiterate, he doesn’t hear, doesn’t speak, nor participates in the political events. He doesn’t know the cost of life, the price of the bean, of the fish, of the flour, of the rent, of the shoes and of the medicine, all depends on political decisions. The political illiterate is so stupid that he is proud and swells his chest saying that he hates politics. The imbecile doesn’t know that, from his political ignorance is born the prostitute, the abandoned child, and the worst thieves of all, the bad politician, corrupted and flunky of the national and multinational companies.”

But basically, I can’t understand why any Celtic fan would vote no either.

If it’s the Salmond thing, as someone else who was mentioned above said… “It’s like deciding not to move into your dream house because you don’t like the colour of the paint”.

Anthony
7 years ago

Firstly I would like to say, I have never voted in my life, I am almost ashamed whilst proud of this fact. The reason is from the age of being able to vote I have never once felt that any politician or their policies were worthy of my vote. I believe that the people that want to be politicians should not be politicians, now I realise this is not realistic as I know a number of politicians to be extremely honourable and genuine although to win the battle they need to resort to play ground antics to satisfy the electorate. I will go to the ballot box for the first time in my life on the 18th Sept and vote Yes for an independent Scotland as I believe that will give my children and their children the satisfaction and privilege that being part of a country that stands on its own and not reliant(if that’s the case) on a big brother country to tell them what’s best and bail them out. Scotland is an amazing country despite its problems which are highlighted by the minority and ignorance of the big brother syndrome. We have a once in 300 year opportunity to seize the initiative and feel that if we do this the true colours of our neighbours will be exposed. Answer this question, if you were the MD of a company that had 3 subsidiary companies and one was losing money to the detriment of the others what would you do, you would most likely get rid of it and let someone else have a go at sustaining the losses, stuff economies of scale, hard economics are at the heart of Westminster, no sentimentality. Vote for what you believe in and make it count, that last time we got the chance I was in nappies, the next time I might be again.

Brendan
7 years ago

Desi,

Thanks for a thought provoking and as usual intelligent article. Your points appear considered and informative. An example to all on how to conduct ones self regardless of point of view.
As it happens I cannot understand any Celtic supporter who understands the history of the club being anything less than a committed yes vote. For me the founding of Celtic was in itself a yes vote of the time.

Thank you again

Hail hail

7 years ago

Read the English Daily Mail and the Express yesterday,they both think Cameron is a dead cert for re-election. If that isn’t enough to put the no voters off then nothing will.
As for politics in sport, the nigels from down south are going nuts over a flag that the Argentinians paraded before there last friendly match, something about the “Malvina’s being theirs”. Word has it that’s another oil rich province they don’t wont to get rid of.

greenmaestro
7 years ago
Reply to  gerald

Another example is that Brunai was one of the last countries to leave the empire (1980s), they have a huge oil resource too.

I think the arguments wer the same about not being able to manage the resource properly, not being mature or developed enough,

The usual patronising “we know best” arguments.

greenmaestro
7 years ago

Desi, it is quite obvious by the number of responses here, that Politics and the independence debate have no place on this site.

Or, to borrow from Billy Bragg

“Mixing baws and politics he asks me what the use is,
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses”

– Waiting for The Great Leap Forwards

schoosh71
7 years ago

“Give it up!”. You don’t need to justify what you’ve written to anybody. Vote YES for the win.

Hector
7 years ago

Good response to Desi’s article and a healthy (apart from one!) mix of comments.

The fact children in one of the wealthies countries in the world are now getting fed from foodbanks says it all for me about the inequality in the UK caused by successive Westminster governments.

I don’t want any part of that. I’m voting Yes so we can use our resources fairly and give everyone an opportunity in life and some food in teir stomachs.

PB
7 years ago

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnicholson/2014/03/05/5-reasons-why-scottish-independence-would-be-an-economic-disaster/

very good points being made here today. I myself if I still lived in Scotland would vote no but I live in the USA so one less no vote :-). The reason being I see no economic advantage, by which I mean standard of living or increased opportunities, for the population to prosper. Also I see numerous unanswered questions about currency, EU membership, realtions with England and Wales – practical stuff like defense, global embassies, passports & Visas, border control, subsidized banks ( inlcuding those who bankrolled the huns ). Just too many unanswered questions for me. I often wonder why people in England dont’ want their own state, that would certainly make this a moot point.

PB
7 years ago
Reply to  Desi Mond

Thank you for the fast response Desi. I absolutley do not think that Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid as you put it. Not at all, I would really like to see solid plans set out publicly that address the realities of starting an Independent State. I have not seen these as yet.

How will the new Scottish independent government ensure economic success and turn Scotland into the most equal country in the world? What is the plan post independence to close the wealth gap and how will it be funded? I know what it is today so what actual plans and actions will address what it is supposed to become? How will self determination make it better and not worse?

Although it is true that self determination is the point the reality is that if that succeeds a whole host of international relationship situations follow. It seems that there is an assumption that everything will actually be much the same after independence except that Scotland will be independent. When you quit a job on the railway you dont get free travel on the railway anymore.

I take your point on defense, although Georgia was a case where a small nation was invaded. However that said I agree there could be massive savings on defense – question how much and what to do with the money. Does Scotland remain part of NATO?

The British taxpayer bailed out a number of Scottish and English based British banks not the United States. In fact the United States were busy fining them for unlawful activities. These are British banks listed in London. How will that be reconciled financially under an Independent Scotland?

Again I understand the disssatisfaction and the points that you make about how bad it all is today so how will indedependence make it much better outside that fact that Scotland would be independant? All the implications and practicalities of that follow so what is the plan?

Admin
Ralph Malph(@ralph)
7 years ago
Reply to  PB

It might not make it better, but at least it’ll be us making the decisions. And we can learn from any mistakes.

PB
7 years ago

Need to get back to work – lunch is over 🙂

andy docherty
7 years ago

Can I add, the fact that all the political parties are now offering all sorts of baubles to Scotland if we vote no is even more evidence that the UK need Scotland more than Scotland needs the UK.
I also want to know why they have denied us this right all these years – why weren’t we offered these perks before if they should have been ours.
The Westminster Labour Party need us as they need our votes, therefore, you can see why they want to keep us in the UK.
The tories do not rely on Scotland for votes and know that by cutting Scotland off would weaken Labour’s position, so why are they so desperate for us to stay in the UK? Could it be because they need our revenues to subsidise the south of England?

RobertMcEwan
7 years ago

I urge all celtic fans to log into you tube and watch tommy shridan independance speech Cumbernauld,we have a chance to run our own country, and believe you me if we vote no, westminster will come gunning for us with a vengence, because a no vote would endorse everything we had suffered before

RobertMcEwan
7 years ago

Although you live in the states, tune into Tommy Sheridan on independence speech Cumbernauld hope that will answer all your questions

Charlie Saiz
7 years ago

In an Independent Scotland the Klans grip will tighten on the running of everything again as there will be no one looking over the shoulders of those who control the power.
The Judiciary,Police and Political Elite are rife with that mob and anyone who thinks the life of a Catholic is going to improve in Scotland under Independence is deluding themselves.

7 years ago

Someone asked if I’d like to write about religious implications inherent in nationalist ideology. It is written up in this week’s Newshawk. Why do you suppose the Pope is exercised by this spectre? He made the elegant discrimination between separation for emancipation and division for suspect purposes. But you’ll get some grist for your debate in the article.

You mad about ETims or just plain mad? Why not buy the t-shirt at http://etims.spreadshirt.co.uk/