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Celtic and Europe

Monti makes a case for prioritising the European stage, arguing that the time is right for the club to re-assert itself in the big boys playground. 
From Moravcik 67 on twitter..
Mini Champions League qualifying update. Copenhagen and Olympiakos can no longer win their league. That means only Basel, Salzburg, Ludogorets, PSV & Plzen (Or Sparta Prague) could be ranked above us. It would take 4 of them to make the playoff to prevent us being seeded. 
PSV have won the Dutch league. Salzburg, Ludogorets & Plzen have comfortable leads. So there’s a very good chance all 4 teams will have won their league, and enter the CL. Basel, however, can probably be rule out. They’re 13pts back with 5 to play. They’d need a miracle now. 
That leaves PSV, Salzburg, Ludogorets & Plzen. All 4 would need to be in the playoff to stop us being seeded. But if this years CL winner qualifies for the group stage via their league Plzen would go straight to the group stage. We’re probably going to have to rely on this. 
Of the CL semi-finalists – Munich are champions. – Madrid need 3pts from 5 games to secure their CL place – Liverpool need 5pts from 3 games. – Roma are 3rd, but just 1pt clear of 5th place. Roma are the weak link, but also probably the CL underdogs. 
If all 4 teams finish in the top 4 of their league then we’re good, assuming Basel don’t have their miracle. But if the CL winner doesn’t finish top 4 of their league then we’re relying on one of teams ranked above us to be knocked out of qualifying. Still looks good, though.
Europe. and the annual lottery of qualification. Shouldn’t we be looking to be above all that ?
A club of our pedigree ?
 After all, Europe is something that is dear to all of us Celtic supporters, we love the Champions league nights, the atmosphere and the odd giant killing results that happen from time to time, Barcelona, Manchester Utd, Juventus & AC Milan have all been put to the sword in Paradise in the past, but will we see these victories again?
There’s little doubt that we’ll get the odd one of, but can we compete again on a regular basis ?
The questions I want to ask is, are we building a side for Europe, like Jock Stein advised us too or are we simply hoping for the best when we go into the big boys playground & watching through the cracks in our fingers?
Is it enough to point to the huge financial disparities and blame that every time get horsed ?
If we want to give Brendan & Celtic a BETTER, fighting chance of qualifying & being more comfortable at CL level, then we must back the manager with serious investment in the side.
Thats not to say we should be looking at spending beyond our means, as apart from anything else thats no guarantee, but surely a little step up in quality is needed ?
We have a world class manager, fantastic stadium and 60, 000 supporters filling the stadium, everything is in place to be a competitive side in Europe, not winning it but competing & that for me is key to Europe, competing & having players comfortable at that level.
So the questions are, where do we want Celtic to be, a club who invest heavily not recklessly, in aiming to be a  regular CL side, competing & a team, club, growing and developing into a respected european force, or average to poor in europe but succesful domestically?
I don’t ever want Celtic to get into financial trouble by chasing europe, but surely raising the bar on recruiting players would be rewarded with CL income?
Thus kickstarting a cycle of serious money coming into the club, re-invested on the field and not in hotels, car parks and heated driveways.
Peter Lawwell famously said  ” we want to be world class in everything we do “…
But what he says and what he does, or sanctions, are wolrds apart at the moment, and scooping up the best talent in Scotland so that no one else can have it may make domestic sense, but its not going to help when the big boys come to town.
I want to see the evidence of that through the quality & standard of player emerging from our tunnel onto the field.
” Build a side for Europe & Scotland takes care of itself ” – Jock Stein.
He showed how it can be done, as in the period 1966-74 Celtic were feared throughout europe, not only the lions era, but the following Quality Street Kids side, itself involved in two European semi finals.
Martin O’Neill invested heavily to get Celtic recognised in Europe again, and reached another final, but he had a strong side to build on, and arguably its the only time that Celtic invested from a position of strength on the field.
Its time to look further afield, and build for a serious attempt at europe, and with rumours that Brendan Rodgers own ambitions will eventually be on the bigger stage, surely its time to offer him that chance here, before he takes it somewhere else ?
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Devoy45
5 years ago

Is this the same Monti? Nurse! LOL
Well-argued, can’t argue with a single point. I’m really impressed by all the stuff on the European leagues and rankings. I also agree the club should support Brendan. The time is right. Nobody wants us splashing the cash but a few canny purchases right now could make the difference. We have some good European experience already but need to plug a few major gaps.
Well done son…keep up the good work.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Devoy45

Devoy,
The very same lol.

Chris
5 years ago

to compare 66-74 with now in Champions league terms is nonsensical because it was an even playing field back then…Rodgers will leave us we dont need rumours to know that, the question is when? And in that respect you are right we must offer him the chance to succeed here or he will leave sooner than he or the fans and the club would maybe want to. So yes some investment the likes of which Martin had would be ideal, but be warned when Martin left we were in a shambles, just ask Gordon Strachan…..Hail Hail

john young
5 years ago
Reply to  Chris

For starters stop signing Scottish players as most if not all are average to say the least.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  john young

John young,
I don’t agree, there is plenty Scottish talent, we let Andy Robertson go in his younger days, now the guy is holding his own at Liverpool & about to play in a CL semi.
The best young talent in Scotland should always have a place at Celtic, augmented by signing higher quality established foreign players.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Charlie Saiz,
When i talk about investing to compete in europe, i’m not talking about trying to win the fucking thing, good as that would be, it just frustrates me that we always have the same defensive issues, sort it the fuck out!
I think it realistic for Celtic to spend between 20 & 25m i know wages would bump that up to 40m, but we will get 20m+ for Dembele alone.
Brendan is a top manager, help him!

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Chris

Chris,
Remind me again what we were before Martin arrived & his trophy collection on leaving?

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Chris

Chris,
You say it was a level playing field back then, in terms of finance then yes it was, but i hope you aren’t missing the point i’m making.
I’m not talking about trying to build a side to win the CL, i’m talking about investing relatively heavily on primarily an entire new defence, i believe this would make us far harder to beat than we are at the moment, we have to strengthen the defence & not with players from Dundee.
The Van Dijk’s don’t come around too often, but we need two of them & a right back who is as effective as Tierney is at left back, the goalkeeper? Yes i think we could strengthen there as well.
I would be a happy bhoy if we built a new defence after the Scottish cup final.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Charlie saiz,
How hard is it to find a right back and two quality central defenders?
Maybe a new number one with Bain as back up.

Ajer is changing my mind a bit but i’m not 100% there with him yet.
At the end of the season i’d move on Boyata, Simunovic & Compper, maybe Gordon once a new number one is brought in.
Lustig should be retained but used as back up to a new right back.
Just how i see the sides requirements.

Jamie
5 years ago

Good summary of where we should be aiming and i for 1 would be willing to pay £200 into a fund just for quality players year on year

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Jamie

Jamie,
Cheers m8

5 years ago

Stein was of course spot on as usual. I don’t think supporters appreciate the damage the terrible European performances have had on domestic form this season. Professional footballers, especially those used to winning, do not take getting hammered 7-1 and 5-0 lightly. Our confidence was crushed by the defeats in Europe and some players have wilted, Sinclair being one of them. Our home record in Europe is nothing short of criminal and the frightening thing, that I never thought I would see, is Celtic supporters accepting it. The ‘Lucky to be there attitude’. Justified by mentioning how bad things were back in the 90s. Fuck that. We would have done a lot better if recruitment was at the level of a CL club. It is not and this needs to be addressed as soon as possible. No one is saying we need to sign 20 million pound players, like that will ever happen, but better quality players are affordable. #1 million at bank plus 28 million Cl money, surely Celtic could spend 25 million of this leaving about 34 million in the bank and money from the sale of Dembele (10-12 million) Sinclair, Armstrong , Boyata, Lustig and one or two others might raise about 5 million for the lot. that could be another 15 million. A budget of 40 million for Celtic is huge. Big Pete would deduct another 10 million for rainy day money leaving 30 million. but can anyone really see Celtic buying 6 or so players for 30 million. It is what is needed and is affordable. The standard would be better than 32year old injured guys and kids from St Mirren. If we do not invest at this level we can forget it. But the question needs to be asked if they are keeping the money what is it for? A museum? A fancy hotel lobby? We are in the football business, take care of that business first.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  john

John,
Agreed, my point is we have to invest heavily to be as competitive as we can on this euro stage.
There are no guarantees of course but would it give us a better chance of being competitive? Yes it would.

Tex
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Monti,

After that display on Saturday,we will need to invest heavily to secure 10 IAR,never mind compete in Europe.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Tex

Tex,
Lol

charlie
5 years ago

right thats it lawell oot una in wae monti in on a advisory capacity and tae make her tea ……..wot could possibly go wrong he he

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  charlie

Yep,
I’d advise her two sweetex & Milk

Monti
5 years ago

Every year is the same, nerve jangling qualifiers, anxiety, borderline heart attacks and praying we make it in hope and quiet expectation.
The same fucking issues, midfielder playing in defence causing unnecessary anxiousness.
Just buy a few players for fuck sake, start at the back and give us the quality to confront these qualifiers in a semi relaxed frame of mind.
If we qualify a lot of money comes back into the club, Hendry & Morgan may do Celtic a turn domestically but if we want to be competitive in europe, in terms of turning 7-1 defeats into a 2-0 or 2-1 we need a strong defence.
It really is simple stuff surely to go out and bring in a few players who lift the quality of the side.
Who is this fucking lee congerton?
What does he do?

Brian (not the messiah)
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Turn a 7-1 5-0 into a 2-1….. Your piece was great but in that comment Lies a defeatest attitude. Maybe we need to do some man marking in europe like lenny did on saturday and believe we can win. The gulf in Class between the spl and champions league is so big

Monti
5 years ago

Brian,
I don’t think losing to PSG narrowly is being defeatist, i just think a 2-1 is the proper way to lose, not slaughtered 7-1 or losing 5 at home.

TicToc
5 years ago

A very good post and some very good comments.
I wont shock anyone here, especially the author, by saying we NEED a defence. It’s non-negotiable and you’d need to be fucking blind as well as stupid to think otherwise.
I’ve no idea what Commper has been about, but it’s another failure. He can join Dumb and Dumber in the same taxi. So, we NEED a minimum of 2 quality central defenders with young Hendry hopefully being improved by training beside them. Until we see who goes in Summer it’s difficult to say more but Ryan Christie seems to be ONE young Scot who can play and he’s not alone. Scotland will certainly take care of itself if we bring in that defensive quality, and even Lawwell can’t deny we’ve got plenty in reserve to cover this. Come On You Bhoys In Green.
HH

Bhoris
5 years ago
Reply to  TicToc

Charlie
If any player was brought into our club without the managers say so then its time to chuck it.

Bhoris
5 years ago
Reply to  Bhoris

A get what your saying but ad rather put that down to bad manager choices than board. As a said, if the boards buying players over the manager then the games a bogey. Ma Celtic disnae dae that

Bhoris
5 years ago
Reply to  Bhoris

Get what yer saying mate and listening to you then yer probably right but am no gonnae agree wi ye cos ad be scunnered if ye were right. No what am saying? Naw, neither dae a

Monti
5 years ago

Charlie Saiz,
Maybe you can’t get a signal in your loft, go doon the stair & send it again 😉

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Charlie Saiz,
No that was what the butler witnessed at Balmoral….cough…sweep.

Rebus67
5 years ago

Charlie,

If Commper wasn’t BR’s decision, whose was it?

I doubt that anyone could slip one past BR.

Rebus

Rebus67
5 years ago

Monti,

Interesting article which I think I agree with. I might be wrong but what I think you are saying is there needs to be BALANCE.

Balance between financial mgmt and team development. Balance between buying emerging talent and experience. Balance between the levels of spend in different areas of the team. On the latter, we spend circa a million on CB’s but 3-5 million on midfielders!

Of course, finding the correct balance in all of these situations is very difficult.

How well we achieve this will determine how long BR stays and the quality of the next manager.

Rebus

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Rebus67

Rebus,
Yes exactly, i don’t want to spend chasing the uncatchable PSG, Man City, Real Madrid & Barcelona, i just want a side who has real quality in each postion….then we give them a fight…and win.
It has been done before & can again.

5 years ago

We are very weak in europe and not just against the big guns. Anderlecht at home was a real eye opener for me in how bad we actually are at that level. Yes we beat them away but we got them at a good time they were in disaray.
Heavy investment is required and not just in defence if we want to get serious.
Good post monti

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  jimmybee

Jimmybee,
Thanks for replying and you are bang on m8

Mike
5 years ago

Martin O’Neil spent £40.00 mill. back in 2001/2 on new players to compete with the financially doped “Rangers” plus he had two World class players already at the club in Henky and Lubo. To buy these same players now, what would they cost, hundreds of millions?
The EPL winners received last year £150. mill. pounds, that was before the rest of the financially doped clubs throughout Europe with massive wealth investing in their clubs.
Celtic will win a paltry £3.00 mill. pounds for winning the SPFL.
Does anyone think that spending even £40.00 mill. pounds extra next season will make us compete any better than now?
The last time Brother Martin spent £40.00 mill. pounds, we the Celtic support spent the next 5 years paying it all back. How Gordon Strachan managed to get us to the last 16, in the C.L. God only knows, because I certainly don’t.
If you win the C.L. you receive approx. £78.00 mill. pounds including prize money and out of the marketing pool.
For me, I would like to see Celtic spending an extra £15.00 mill. pounds and then you have to spend the same amount on wages, is all that extra risk really worth it and remember if you sell our best players, they have to be replaced, how often we have sold our best and the risk of brining in replacements who have flopped.
The board despite what we think will not give Rodgers an awful lot extra monies, already we are hearing of possible centre-backs being scouted in the same range as now and still very young.
Rodgers has stated repeatedly that he gets his job satisfaction developing players, he says it often enough so it must be true.
We have some good players and a good manager, but some need to be replaced and with a possible increase in budget and then lets see where we get to, but to progress in the C.L. we are in the sweety money category, but I desperately want us to continually getting to the group stages, we belong there. Well done Monti.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Mike,
Cheers m8.
To answer your point about would 40m do? Yes i do , if spent wisely Mike, remember the point is to have quality all through the side, put it this way, Virgil cost 2.5m m8, Wanyama was under 1m Forster 2m…..the fucking players are out there Mike, maybe lee congerton cannae see them.
So there’s three top players we decveloped & they helped the side for under 6m…..40m would be well enough.

Rob O'Keeffe
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Monti and Mike,no way are Celtic going to spend £40m,pipe dream.The hotel,museum,fan zone is going to happen.As for Congerton,I contacted a source and asked why this guy never comes out and provides information about all the WorldClass work he’s doing,for a hefty wage? I was told that others at Parkhead wonder what he is bringing to the party.
Strange signings,not PLs fault,De Vries,Chomper,Benyu,Kouassi,Hayes(Oh God!),Musconda(loan).Several other players with mystery injuries.These players are all on good money.Odd way to “run” a football Club……

Mike
5 years ago
Reply to  Rob O'Keeffe

Rob, I totally agree, no way will the board release these funds for the team. I read somewhere that Rodgers was not very happy at the Commper signing and wondered who had scouted him. Congerton had a poor reputation at Sunderland, some of our signings are beyond belief even the signing of Kouassi why was he signed to sit on the bench… occasionally.
We need to spend every penny better and more wisely, we are not a rich enough club to waste it.
On the other hand, what is this FIFA announcement about, a completely new set up that is attracting the bigger clubs, its a huge investment, will WE be invited?

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Rob O'Keeffe

Rob,
I think we all know the board won’t spend 40m, the point is they should be spending at a level that allows us to bring in players who push the team on.
I think we should concentrate on the defence in the summer.
We need to finally strengthen the weaknesses…all of them.

FredDDobbs
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

ffs this is the worst post ever

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  FredDDobbs

Agreed, try to post of a higher standard.

charlie
5 years ago

probaby for the best saiz ye we probably talkin shite as usual anyway he he

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  charlie

🙂

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  charlie

🙂

Yoker Bhoy
5 years ago

Good article Monti and some very valid points. I’m afraid that the fact we compete in a poor man’s low-budget league and face sub-standard opposition week in week out doesn’t help our cause but I fully agree that more ambitious spending has to be done if we are to have any chance of qualifying for the CL on a regular basis (I have the nasty feeling it’s going to get harder and harder due to the growing moneyball syndrome) and improving on our recent performances once there. I really can’t see 20 million being spent this summer but even somewhere between 10 and 15 million would be a decent step up. Our defence and the goalkeeping position are the main problem areas.
Invest well and at the very least we could go pretty far in the Europa League -I see that Red Bull Salzburg, a side that was knocked out of the CL the same night as we beat Rosenberg in the round before the play-off, has gone all the way to the semi final.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Yoker Bhoy

Yoker Bhoy,
Yeah it just goes to show how well an unfancied side can go far….seville anyone?
I remember sitting by the pool in the park in San Sebastian the night before the UEFA cup final, never in a million years did i think i’d see Celtic compete in a European final again.
After what we went through in tbe early 90’s, the turmoil with the old board, we had came a long way.

5 years ago

This blog pretty much agrees with what I was saying at the weekend. Celtic have received ~60M income from CL over the last 2 years, surely we can afford to bring in 3-5 quality players, not prospects, players that will improve the 1st team from the start.

Start with the defense please.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Katanes

Katanes,
Absolutely, we need to raise the bar in terms of quality coming to the club, as well as retaining our best players.
This summer transfer window will tell us everything about this boards ambition, if we want to keep Brendan, the board need to back him.

5 years ago

Completely agree, there has never been a better time to do this……if we don’t then we will know the difference between the board and the fans.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Katanes

Katanes,
If we don’t back Brendan the board will back no one else in the future, give him the tools to succeed.

FredDDobbs
5 years ago

back door gerrard. This can only get better 🙂

BJF
5 years ago

Good post Monti. I was happy with the club’s acquisitions last season and I was also cautious about splashing the cash. However the two big humilisting results in Europe are not on, I think they diluted a lot of the sense of pride the Invincibles created. We have lost 3 times deservedly I think because there are a number of really good and largely experienced coaches in the League this season. Lenny, Levin, McInness,Steve Clarke even, God help us, McCann.
On another matter did you see the silly attempt to say Sportscene were trying to suppress the Sevco banners at Ibrox. I watched the programme, Jonathan Sutherland clearly went off script and a voice told him that the banner was scheduled after the Hearts goal discussion. In fact they showed two banner critical of the Sevco hierarchy. Somone was trying to turn this into the Sevco silliness about the Hibs result being a conspiracy against them, such nonsense.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  BJF

BJF,
I Watched Sportscene but only the Hibs v Celtic game highlights, i like Michael Stewart’s analysis….that Jonathan Sutherland has a really fucking irritating voice tho.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Why thank you sir….

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Weered,
The thing is m8 it doesn’t have to be spend big, just go the extra mile for the few players who complete the jigsaw.
We are talking 4 players who can lift the team, they are out there m8.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Weered,
Not the level i was thinking of m8 but hey, look at Seamus Coleman, great player.
I’m sure i read somewhere we knocked Coleman back years ago…lol.

Monti
5 years ago

I thought the Graffiti on the wall said…..Brits out 🙂

Monti
5 years ago

I see that young South African player, Rivaldo Coetzee may have to retire from the game due to that foot injury….boy is only 21 :/

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Charlie Saiz,
Just disappointed for him, he sounded like he wanted to play for Celtic, goid luck to him.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Weered,
It’s a shame, sad to see players careers cut short.

BJF
5 years ago

Bottom line Monti the BBC showed two banners from disgruntled Sevco supporters and now we are going to get this again; that Celtic will blow the league and they will win it.I can’t believe they, the media and web sites,are going there again after Ibrox and Hamden They are just taking the piss out of genuine Sevco supporters, building them up for greater humiliation, but it’s their choice.They are prisoners of Rangers history, dumping it was their only chance of some form of normality.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  BJF

BJF,
They truly are stupid, stupid huns m8

Monti
5 years ago

Charlie Saiz,
Good stuff!

Monti
5 years ago

Thanks for all the replies today & tonight Bhoys, appreciated.
Especially to fredcdobbs who i hear gave up his spot on Mastermind to be here.

Bhoris
5 years ago

Good post aswell Monti by the way. Always good to read what people think. God bless the Celtic

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Bhoris

Bhoris,
Cheers man!

Monti
5 years ago

Big thanks to all who posted on this, thanks.

henkesdreadlocks
5 years ago

M. great thread, but I feel I must take you to task using Sevilla as a comparison as an unfancied team We could only dream of having the quality they possess and I mean wildest dreams.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-sevilla/startseite/verein/368

Monti
5 years ago

Henke,
Ya daft hoor, i didn’t say the team Seville, i meant getting to Seville.
I blame the werthers….

henkesdreadlocks
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

That’s me schooled. Hahaha!

Peter
5 years ago

Great post and following discussion.

I agree, controlled investment will take us further in Europe, I for one cannot have another heart attack watching these last ditch qualifiers.

To widen the horizon tho, what do you think we will do domestically when we complete 8IAR, in terms of investment. After last Saturday all the rest will have sussed us out a bit more. Will THEY risk all to try and stop the 10. How will we respond.

Rob O'Keeffe
5 years ago
Reply to  Peter

Dermot knows that he could provide Celtic with a “soft loan” of £100m,after all,the Sooside Sectarians are doing it,and massively help our performance in Europe.Why doesn’t he? Because Celtic are happy to stay ahead domestically,not spend too much,keep everything cosy,hotel etc and have 50,000 rolling up for STs as long as there is that other “team” in the League.As Erudite stated,quite often,tuppence is tuppence….

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Peter

Peter,
We respond by not standing still, each season adding that one or two players of higher calibre.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Peter

Exactly my loft dwelling friend, exactly.

CarlJungleBhoy
5 years ago

Good read Monti and – going by most of the comments – it seems everybody else has the same thoughts: We all know that getting CL quality talent to come & play in Scotland is easier said than done, but we must surely have enough pulling power and more than enough in our fit to bursting biscuit tin to buy 2 or 3 players who’ll help take us up another level & actually compete in Europe??

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  CarlJungleBhoy

CJB,
Thanks for replying.
Aye the pulling power may not bring the very best players but there are levels of player beneath that which is better than we have at the park.
Like we did with VVD from Groningen, there must be players throughout european leagues who can do damage for us, surely.
I don’t want us to be reckless just ambitious.
These CL qualifiers do my tits in, i actually get crabbit as fuck a days before the game takes place.
It is vital to qualify & when we do i feel it’s not enough just to get tbere and be cannon fodder for fucking PSG.
HH

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