Menu Close

The Big Lie Exposed

There it is. The truth.

The letter from UEFA which once and for all settles the debate around  of “rangers ” 2012 continuing, or having a right to claim to be, the same entity as Rangers 1872, in liquidation.

First of all, lets determine the credibility of the source. Andrea Traverso, head of Club Licencing and Financial Fair Play.

Who is he, and what does he do ?

He is the head of Club Licencing and financial Fair Play at UEFA, which  in January this year produced a report, entitled

Club Licencing -Ten Years On

After its publication, Traverso expressed

the hope that the report can encourage more sporting organisations to adopt similar standards to those promoted through club licensing, with the aim of improving governance and protecting the interests of competition organisers, clubs, players and, ultimately, the fans. 

to be fair, although I’ve provided a link, you probably won’t read all of it. It would take weeks.

But it seems clear that neither the SFA, the SPFL or anyone in the media has taken the time either.

After all, you’re not going to spend all that time on something that will show you’ve been peddling a lie about something, indeed to the extent where you or the organisation you work for has been making money off what you have lied about for, oh, four years or so now.

You know, this same club nonsense. It was the company that went bump and all the other guff spewed by those “in the know ”

 

So, having established that Traverso knows what he’s on about, lets look at what he has to say, in his summary,  about the issue…

The bit about “new club/company, for instance, requires a little clarification, so we know what we are talking about here…

 

The use of the term “club/company” in the UEFA reply reflects Article 12 of UEFA FFP 2010 (and later versions) which says:

Chapter 2: Licence Applicant and Licence

Article 12 – Definition of licence applicant

1 A licence applicant may only be a football club, i.e. a legal entity fully responsible
for a football team participating in national and international competitions which
either:

a) is a registered member of a UEFA member association and/or its affiliated
league (hereinafter: registered member); or

b) has a contractual relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: football
company).

2 The membership and the contractual relationship (if any) must have lasted – at
the start of the licence season – for at least three consecutive years. Any
alteration to the club’s legal form or company structure (including, for example,
changing its headquarters, name or club colours, or transferring stakeholdings
between different clubs) during this period in order to facilitate its qualification on
sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence to the detriment of the integrity of a
competition is deemed as an interruption of membership or contractual
relationship (if any) within the meaning of this provision.

Article 12 of UEFA FFP is there to protect the integrity of UEFA competition and basically prevents a club (like Rangers Football Club – RFC) that changes its legal entity (as in being liquidated) simply reforming and continuing debt free as the same club with the same continuing National Association Membership as was held by the previous legal entity. It also prevents the holding company ruse that Southampton for example tried to use to avoid ten points deduction in 2009.

( http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8014811.stm )

Fairly straightforward, its there to stop cheats. Or at the very least, to deter them from trying to pull off a scam.  to replace the scam they had been operating for years that caused them to go down in the first place, presumably.

A UEFA licence applicant first and foremost can only be a football club either free standing as in 1(a) above as RFC were prior to liquidation or an applicant having a contractual (i.e. written down) relationship with a club who is a member of a National association.

In the years prior to liquidation there is no indication that Murray International Holdings (MIH) applied via SFA for UEFA licences under a written contract with RFC although the current The Rangers Football Club (TRFC) appear to have such a contractual relationship with Rangers International Football Club. (RIFC).

It’s a bit like the three shell game- designed to confuse.

Thus whether any future applicant via the SFA for a UEFA licence from Ibrox, whether that be from the club (The Rangers Football Club [TRFC]) or the company (Rangers International Football Club PLC [RIFC]) will be treated by UEFA as coming from a new version of the club either from

⦁ The club itself as an applicant or
⦁ The company as an applicant (on behalf of the club)

But in any case neither has been a member of the SFA since before the club’s inception in 2012. There can only be one entity, and where Ibrox is concerned, one could successfully argue that one is enough.

Therefore, the club and the company are the same thing.

Despite what the experts say..

Which begs the question, one that the media are somewhat reluctant to ask, which is convenient as the SFA/SPFL have shown no interest in answering,  that in light of the statement from UEFA and Article 12 and its purpose to preserve integrity of the competition, how can The SFA and The SPFL justify their apparent approach of allowing TRFC continuity of membership of both SFA and SPFL in football regulation terms, the result of which future trophies/titles may be added, in  contradiction of UEFA regulations when their own regulations (below) state the SFA are bound to UEFA regulations and the SPFL to SFA regulations?

Sounds complicated, but it isn’t. The SFA/SPFL are bound by UEFA decsions and rules.

The term used by the late Paul McConville in respect of the “conditional” SFA membership awarded in 2012 to enable “rangers “, then known as Sevco,  to play Brechin # was “ultra vires” -outside the rules and it looks like it did not stop since.

# https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jul/27/rangers-relaunched-brechin

THE SCOTTISH FA AND ITS MEMBERSHIP

From SFA HANDBOOK 2014/15

http://scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2014-15/Handbook%202014-15..pdf

3. The Scottish FA

The Scottish FA is a member of FIFA and UEFA. Accordingly, it is itself obliged to:-

(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance
with the principles of fair play;

(b) comply with the statutes, regulations, directives, codes and decisions and the
International Match Calendar of FIFA, UEFA and the Court of Arbitration for
Sport, and the Laws of the Game;

(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as
specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;

(d) use its best endeavours, to the extent legally permissible, to procure that in the
final instance any dispute arising under these Articles (and which is referred to
it) is determined by arbitration pursuant to Article 99; and

(e) use its best endeavours to ensure that the leagues, clubs, players, officials,
matches and Players’ Agents under its jurisdiction (through their statutes,
licences, regulations or any other written document) acknowledge and accept
all the above mentioned obligations and agree to be bound by and observe
these Articles. 

Personally, I can;t see how either of the Ibrox entities have adhered to any of these rules, but I may be wrong

Duties of SFA Members.

5. Obligations and Duties of Members

5.1 All members shall:-

(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance
with the rules of fair play; 

This one especially doesn’t seem to apply to them. Not even near it.

(b) be subject to and shall comply with these Articles and any statutes,
regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar
promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-
Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel Protocol, a Committee or subcommittee,FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;

(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport
as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA
Statutes;

(d) respect the Laws of the Game; 

Laugh out loud stuff now.

(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would
constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and

(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good
Faith 

Articles of Association of The Scottish Professional Football League Limited (Company Number SC175364)

Click to access 067_324__articlesofassociationofthescottishprofessionalfootballleaguelimitedasat1january2015_1420461960.pdf

SCOTTISH FA ARTICLES Applicable to SPFL.

191. Nothing in these (SPFL) Articles shall relieve any Member of the Company from its obligations as a full member club of the Scottish FA to comply with the applicable articles of association of the Scottish FA for so long as such Member remains a member of the Scottish FA.
192. Each Member shall in so far as it is lawfully able and permitted by the exercise of its voting powers to do so procure that the Company observes and complies with all relevant articles of association of the Scottish FA applicable to it

To sum up if UEFA have made it quite clear they regard The Rangers Football Club as a “new club/company” what is the position of the SFA and SPFL under UEFA’s jurisdiction?

Or, why have they ignored this stance and actually made public statements to the opposite effect ?

 

We have the UEFA response, which is reproduced above,  which categorically , using the rules of the SFA SPFL and UEFA confirms they are a new club.

Also carbon copied into that reply are Celtic football club, whose response we do not have, and the SFA, whose response we also do not have.

Celtic need to comment.

They need to put this debate to bed once and for all. The evidnce is there for them to make their views known, but it appears the willingness is not.

Our board ? Unable to comment on anything except the misbehaviour of our fans ?

Who’d have thought it ?

If they are to be deemed worthy of a seat on the board of a club that they claim is like no oither, then they’d better start earning it.

The consequences of the last four years will not stop at merely exposing the lies, but those who were complicut must be held to account.

The media are there to ensure this, but it appears they still have their mouths too full of lamb to talk about it.

Like those at the SFA.

We are aware of a narrative from the SFA , and other notable Celtic themed websites are as well, that suggests that the SFA are growing a little tired of the antics at Ibrox, which in turn may have , or may not have, something to do with the over reaction from the new club when Stewart Regan either didn’t bother turning up for a meeting, or forgot he had one , with representatives of the club.

There is obviously now conflict between the two, and its bizarre that Regan has failed to defend his corner.

He too, will have seen this response.

Maybe he rang his partner in crime Neil Doncaster at the SPFL, another keen to perpetuate the same club myth.

Now that it has been well and truly exposed for the lie it is, can we expect them to comment ?

Can we expect our own Woodwards and Bernsteins in the media to chase the story up and demand answers ?

Stop laughing at the back.

And the front.

This isn’t about the same club ideal, its not a pop at whichever entity plays out of Ibrox.

Its about how a gang of crooks, for want of a better word, were allowed to take over the assets of a club, far too cheaply, and then proclaim they were actually the same club all along, at least the bit about the history which didn’t include the accounts.

Its about how they were allowed to by those who are supposed to be there to protect clubs, and fans, from these very people.

They were allowed to bury  their debt and with the support of the media went on to fleece their own support by pretending them hadn’t gone bump at all, just merely restructured the club, and needed a few quid from them to do that.

Notably, no-one is asking where all that money went. There sure as hell isn’t any of it left.

 

Now that UEFA have confirmed that they are a different club, isn’t it time for those involved to tell us why they said they were ?

Can someone explain how these carpetbaggers made a mockery of the credibility of the Scottish game, and how they were encouraged to do so?

It can still get worse, you know.

Here’s an example. Just one of many I can think of..

Lets conjure up a scenario.

Puma, the German sports kit comapny, have a contract with the Ibrox club that the Ibrox club are trying to renegotiate, or even take themselves out of.

Mike Ashley is at odds with them as well.

What would happen if they realised they hadn’t signed up with a company that had 140 years of history, and all those titles and trophies, and instead , using the UEFA missive as evidence, or at least a start, instructed their lawyers to ask questions of the SFA/SPFL.

We need answers, and it may be that we will get them in court.

It’s gone on for too long now, and no doubt the perpetrators are hoping we’ve all forgotten about the scandal that ranks as the biggest in European sporting history.

Time to stop hoping it will go away, because it won;t, and time to start calling people to account.

 

 

0 0 votes
Article Rating
52 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
James Queen
7 years ago

Well put sir,the most galling thing is the total denial from smsm there was a journo who got sacked at bbc Scotland for telling the truth,case for unfair dismissal? Angela haggerty another case in point ,now the sfa,spfl,et al should be brought to book.In Brendan we trust

jay beer
7 years ago

The MSSM, the SFA/SPFL are a total disgrace.
Shameful is too good for them.

Bhoy 67
7 years ago

A most excellent article, thank you. I just wish someone with some clout would strp up to the plate and put an end to this farce. Once and for all hh.

mike
7 years ago

Great article Ralph but what does it achieve?

UEFA know it.
The SFA and SPFL know it.
The Scottish media know it.
The National Nroadcasters Know it.
The Huns know it.
The Celtic Board know it.
The Celtic Support know it.
Unless we the Celtic Support are willing to do something about it,it will just be totally ignored.
At least we have indesputable evidence and UEFA are aware,it will be interesting to see what happens if and when they are ever able to compete in European Competitions,lets hope that they never will.
We the Celtic support with you and your ilk will keep on reminding them that they are DEED.

andybhoy
7 years ago
Reply to  mike

Mike, we as a support had a chance to do something about it, but Desmond and Co seduced us with St Brendan and although I’m grateful for Brendan Rodgers and his support team, I’m afraid we’ll never get the true and proper outcome of this matter.
As much as it pains me not to go to see this exciting Celtic team, I will not be party to this lie and all the ongoing kidology that protects the vermin from Govan.

andybhoy
7 years ago
Reply to  andybhoy

… and Hampden.

mike
7 years ago
Reply to  andybhoy

Sadly Andy i agree with you,the support could have should have IMO boycotted the Semi Final,to highlight this,but as always nout.

I shake my heed in disbelief that such a brilliant support that once again showed its sympathy and generosity to the people of Palestine,would do nought about thems.

wulz
7 years ago

Excellent Ralph
The brotherhood at so many levels in our society can’t face the truth, it’s as if it never happened
HH

brian
7 years ago
Reply to  wulz

Wulz,you can’t reason with people who believe their own lies

derek
7 years ago

i think celtic need to stay out of this. publicly atleast.
maybe they should speak to the sfa/spfl about uefas response, but i certainly dont think celtic should be making public statements about it.

the res12 guys have done a great job though. well done.

derek
7 years ago

thing is, despite this letter from uefa, the uefa website still says same club. if uefa are in fact in agreement with us, then they need to amend this, as this is the huns main argument.

mike
7 years ago
Reply to  derek

The Eufa website reflects the fact that THEMS are still going through the Liquidation process,technically they could still pay the debters,PMLS,so untill that process is finished,they will still be recognised as the same club and the titles will remain.

derek
7 years ago
Reply to  mike

that’s a fair point, but should they not have two entries on the website in that case?

mike
7 years ago
Reply to  derek

UEFA OFFICIAL WEBSITE PAGE 1379.

Rankers canny enter any European Competitions under any circumstances cos.

They are DEED, DEED DEED.
Apart from that i dinny like them,they are smelly,rotten keech,.

John Allison
7 years ago
Reply to  derek

The new mob have NEVER played in or qualified for a UEFA competition, so why would they have a ranking?

O'Shea Guevara
7 years ago

The final nail in the coffin for the same club myth should be that as of this Summer, Rangers FC (Oldco) have been removed from the UEFA Club Coefficient List. They had been on it, collecting Scotlands annual co-effecient since 2012 up to Summer 2016, ranked 269th, but are now gone…and as Newco are yet to play in UEFA competition and collect points, they are not listed either.

Schadenfraude!

elcormaco
7 years ago

Excellent stuff Ralph. Its complicated, but it isnt really either _ UEFA dont recognise a club, once incorporated into a company, as being distinct from that company, so once Rangers went into liquidation, as they had never disincorprated their club from their company both went into liquidation. This is not news, its just an uncomfortable truth. And why when any Bear starts going on about it was only the company ask them to define “club”. They won’t, or will do it badly as they know they were indivisible in the way rangers were set up – a wee picture of hte Ibrox gates with Rangers Football Club PLC will complete the job.

One wee correction to James Queen, Jim Spence was not sacked- he resigned , but its fair to say his emplyers buckled under teh pressure when ra peepul went after him for stating an opinion whihc is also fact.

Whoriskey
7 years ago

Very well said, Ralph. I hope you carry on writing about this ‘Big Lie’ until it is really exposed across football. The Morecambe & Wise of the SFA/SPFL need to be exposed too, along with their favourite club, lawyers, Mutton chewing Hacks, judiciary,bent accountants and not to forget the Police and Thieves.

7 years ago

Great piece. This outrageous farce needs to be out to bed once and for all and Celtic should play their part.

It would be entertaining if a litigious Puma or Sports Direct used the ‘same club’ lie against Sevco and humiliated the SFA in the process.

Here is my blog on the UEFA letter

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2016/08/21/the-death-certificate/

mike
7 years ago
Reply to  The Clumpany

Well done Clumpany as aways an interesting read,i am certain that all the Tic. bloggers keep stirring the pot,as you say the truth is now out there,someday it will be forced onto the front pages of mainstream media. HA.HA.HA.

P.S. Wonder if the new documentary being shown on BBC Scotland on thursday will mention thie subject. HA.HA.HA.Its good to laugh.

tom
7 years ago

Get Alex Thomson from Channel 4 on to the job.

derek
7 years ago

if you read page 137 of the club licensing document, you will see it says “number of clubs refused licence in last 5 years: 1”

Rebus67
7 years ago

Ralph,

Stirring stuff! This has a Res12 situation written all over it again. Who will take it on after the experience of the Res12 guys?

What I am about to say should not be taken as decrying the substanceof your article, but, I believe, that it is at leadt as important.

Ask yourselves why has Sevco, “rangers” survived and progressed into the top league in Scotland. Whether the old Rangers or the new club, or something else emerged from the shambles there would still be strong support for it…..whatever it may be called, or wherever it chose to play. There is demand from a large section of the Scottish public for whatever “rangers” represents. There is demand for such an entity from the establishment. There is support for the continuation of this type of organisation. Think of the situation as a group of cowboy builders who promise much but fail to deliver. They simply go bust, dodge their responsibilities, and reform under another entity. The law permits this. The only way to stop it is to change the law, or apply it strictly. I do not get the sense that there is an appetite in Scotland to do this, nor, it seems, is there the capacity.

They are not going away. So there is a much deeper issue than whether THEY are a new club or the old one. This issue dissolves into: why do so many support such an organisation?
Why does the establishment support them?
Why does the media not cry foul?

Fix these issues and you fix the problem. Do you see the magnitude of tasks ahead? It will not happen in my lifetime.

Rant over.

Rebus

Monti
7 years ago
Reply to  Rebus67

Rebus,
Alex Salmond spelled that out quite clearly!

Cartvale88
7 years ago

This is a ‘ Bigoted wee country’, I have worked for many large organisations in Scotland and have been shocked at the hatred for anything Irish by the so called intelligent peepul.
My name in no way has an Irish/Scottish connection so the bile is broadcast when no so called Irish individuals are about.
This whole saga is a stain on Scotland and the governing bodies, and goes back further than 2012.
The cheating is also part of Celtic’s shame, at no level do they challenge the authorities or the media, continuing to pay out supporters monies for adverts to the red tops.
Until the club gets some cohones and starts addressing the issues with all concerned the fans will continue to moan.
I agree with the comment about Alex Thomson, the only journo that attempted to voice the truth.
But the zombies Ali the streets in their farcical triumphalist parades in the twenty first century says it a
It is a sad day when we appear still to live in the dark ages

BondiBrian
7 years ago
Reply to  Cartvale88

Cart88…Phil made a big dent in their myth by writing Downfall.

franko
7 years ago

Given the stories this week re police involvement in football (Hearts told not to score any more against Hibs; telling refs when to book players etc), is it possible Celtic have been instructed by the police not to comment on this for fear of the repercussions? I.e. “social unrest”. Meaning more fucking bombs being sent to the club and employees?

highseastim
7 years ago

Cartvale88, can I just correct you, a bigoted wee bottom half of the country. No marches of either persuasion in my area.

portpower
7 years ago

Ralph,splendid read.

Hail Hail

portpower
7 years ago

Will the SFA/SPFL now recognise RFC(IL) as team 43?

The Rangers` history should now be amended on their relevant websites.

7 years ago

For all that great read,nothing will come of it.
The truth is known,only fools would argue the case for the same club but different company nonsense. So it is a shame that no more will be made of a letter from uefa than what already is known.
You see the letter should be sent to every football club in the land. Not just Celtic. It makes it look us against them again.
It is how it is,and always will be,unless Celtic and all the other spfl clubs come out with a joint statement stating the obvious.
We the member clubs of the Scottish Premiership,welcome the 4 year old club to the league. Please note to the media,that past meetings pre 2012 will not be responded too.
We welcome the new club,to our league for their inaugural season.
Simple effective but not a hope in hell of it happening.
The TVs deal,the 5 way agreement,they are by all accounts reading through this all guilty of aiding and abetting in contraction to rule 5 5a sporting integrity.
Only Turnbull Hutton rip had the decency to stand up for the football fan. The rest gutless hypocrites.
So although a good read,that’s all it is going to be,unless someone with the balls of Turnbull Hutton step forward.
Hail Hail

Devoy45
7 years ago

Excellent. I learned a lot from this even though I don’t have a legal brain. We need a good barrister working alongside someone from the Continent or UEFA to make this clear once and for all.Well done again Ralph.

Craig Reynolds
7 years ago

I knew tims were thick as mince but even I’m surprised by the depths of stupidity this episode has plumbed lol!

UEFA’s Official site announces us as the same club every single week it updates our results.

SPFL’s Official site announces us as the same club every single week it updates our results.

The media announces us as the same club every single week it raves about our renewed rivalry, quest for 55, old firm etc.

And you’re shouting victory, case closed!? Lol. More brains in a hot dog 🙂

Half_Fool
7 years ago
Reply to  Ralph Malph

Well in there Ralph Malph!

Monti
7 years ago
Reply to  Ralph Malph

🙂

Monti
7 years ago
Reply to  Ralph Malph

Ralph,
You are most certainly not thick……a bit slow to get to the bar perhaps but certainly not thick 🙂

andybhoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Craig Reynolds

Careful zombie, your fingers will probably fall off soon.

andybhoy
7 years ago
Reply to  Craig Reynolds

comment image

Monti
7 years ago
Reply to  andybhoy

🙂

Frank McGaaaarvey
7 years ago
Reply to  Craig Reynolds

Thick? That’s rich coming from a Sevconian who can’t face reality and will open his legs to whatever great ‘saviour’ comes into view riding a white charger in order to take this new club ‘back’ to wherever they think they should be?

Still got your debenture seat with your name on it? How are your shares doing on the market these days?

BondiBrian
7 years ago
Reply to  Craig Reynolds

Same club? Aye right. Pay the creditors then.

Monti
7 years ago
Reply to  Craig Reynolds

Stupid huns

Monti
7 years ago
Reply to  Craig Reynolds

Craig Reynolds,

“If we don’t get the cva, that’s it, 140 years of istory gone” – Charles Green.
Did he get the cva?

Anthony
7 years ago

Great article although hard to decipher after 7 pints. All I would say is the argument is a futile one. The rangers are a shambles with a shambolic board, stadium, team, PR department and a support that are totally deluded! Let’s just keep laughing at them! In the fullness of time all truths will prevail. We are bigger, better, honest(ish), pay our dues, ethical and our home strip is proper magical and mesmerising!. Sorry if I have made any spelling or grammatical errors. Looking forward to watching the buoys tomorrow! Be cool, be happy and look after your family and friends. HH

BondiBrian
7 years ago
Reply to  Anthony

“Sorry if I have made any spelling or grammatical errors” Anthony, naebody cares aboot grammar man, its a blog no a dissertation for Uni. Keep posting, 7 pints+

HAIL HAIL.

Monti
7 years ago
Reply to  BondiBrian

‘not’ a dissertation…….

Monti
7 years ago

TITLE STRIPPING COMMENCE…..

BOWL?

BondiBrian
7 years ago

So proud to be a Celtic fan the last few days more than ever. Respect to all who chipped in some $$$$$$$$. Ah read a great on-line article fae New York ( Socialist paper, but so be it ) praising The Tic fans and particularly the Green Brigade.

Fitbaw wise…Lets do ourselves proud on & off the park the night.

7-3 aggregate say me!!!!!

HAIL HAIL N aw that!!!!!!!

Monti
7 years ago

Ralph,
I’d like to thank you for mentioning the late Paul McConville, i was a regular on Pauls ‘ random thoughts’ blog and it was with great sadness on hearing Paul had passed away.
Paul knew all the legal stuff obviously and his daily factual updates around Sevco were valued by all of us on that blog and further afield.

R.I.P. Paul!

D'Fhinnein Mick
7 years ago

Text from my sis. What do you think?
-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Saw the lucky Cody post about Howard Webb.

Couldn’t agree more and did actually write to BT a few months ago to say it would be a great idea to have him up here to comment on the games. Not surprised he is proving controversial. The man knows his stuff.

Suggest a hash tag campaign – Although I don’t know how they work but something along the lines of #Webb to clean up the cesspit! Would be a good start!!!

Might have to change the word cesspit to SFA as you can’t expect everyone to know what we mean

XTim
7 years ago

The (yellow) Board might not have commented on the issue but what we do know is that they were counter signatories to the 5 way. Anyone who believes that the debacles surrounding the Sion and Legia Warsaw games were purely coincidental is also complicit with the big lie. The excuse of I never thought about that simply doesn’t wash. The split at Celtic is not between fans and Board but far more insidious. The Green Brigade have highlighted this fault line on numerous occasions over the same period. And so, you really can’t solve anything when so many are still on the wrong page, whether that is because of stupidity or willful ignorance is another question.

Follow us on Twitter @ETimsNet