Celtic Diary Wednesday November 18: Is Peter Still An Honourable Man ?

Before we start, I’d just like to apologise for the inaccuracy yesterday, as it was , in fact, Devante cole, and not Declan Glaagher who underttok the serious assault on Jeremie Frimpong, in case anyone from Police Scotland is reading this and fancies getting their conviction bonus this month.

 

Thats not to say, however, that Gallagher wouldn’t have done it had the opportunity arose, or any of the other Motherwell players, come to think of it.

 

 

Kris ajer and Mo Elyannoussi won;t have to self isolate on their return to Scotland, and therefore are available to face Hibernian this weekend, the club confirmed yesterday. a spokesman said;

Whats the fucking point ? No one gives a toss any more.  ”

 

 

But hang on, Peter does.

 

Not neccesarily about Covid, although he must do, as Celtic have been following protocol and none of the players have held birthday parties, hired hookers or run away from the police, but about Resolution 12.

 

Thats right, he’s finally going to come out a-whopping and a-whipping and start to fight for what’s right.

 

Crowd Cheering GIF - Crowd Cheering GIFs | Gif, Cool gifs, Crowd

 

The questions surrounding collusion, corruption and cheating may yet finally be answered, and the football world in Scotland returned to the world of sport from the world of business.

 

Well, he has said so…and long time searcher of the truth Auldheid clarified what that means….

 

The use of the term that Res11 was unecessary was used in 2013 Res12 as well.

The Company Lawyer explained it as meaning that because Celtic had questioned the SFA in December 2011 and were satisfied with the response there was no need to go to UEFA so Res12 was unecessary.
That was challenged before the 2013 AGM with evidence suggesting there was an overdue payable contrary to SFA response of Dec 2011 which led to adjournment.

This time if you read the the Original Res which is on an earlier page, what the shareholders put to Celtic was not rejected by Celtic.

Quite the opposite they are saying they will pursue with SFA and UEFA. The latter means original Res12 not needed as that is what it asked.

Agreeing to go to UEFA was result of UEFA already having a case of deceit and possible fraud to investigate as result of SFA pulling out. That case was made by shareholders in May and July 2020 and passed to the relevant person in UEFA. There has been no response refuting the case to date.

The issue now is not that an investigation has come to an end which is preying on preconceived notions but will Celtic do as they have said?

Obviously there is huge mistrust that will happen based on past experience not helped by:

1. Lack of timetable.
2. Who exactly will progress if any be reported to? “Certain Member”?
3. What is in the company interests that I saw Awe Naw has commented on but have still to read
4. An end date.

So whilst welcoming Celtic are saying they will pursue the above points need addressed to give any promise to follow up credibility.

This is where an an explanation of Res12 being unecessary comes in. It means as Board are doing what is asked then it is unecessary, not it has been dropped.

As I said the term has been used before the difference is unlike 2013 the evidence that there is a case to answer is sound.

If it wasnt Res11 would have been rejected on those grounds.

We now have questions on the 4 issues above to put, particularly mistrust, the over riding one, using the e mail address Celtic have provided in the notice.  

 

 

We’ll keep an eye on developments, and if you will, listen out for the sound of the hunting horn, as we’ll need as big a posse as we can muster.

 

Ten Facts about Big Cats on World Wildlife Day | NRDC

 

 

No no, posse.

 

As in yee hah!

 

 

The importance of the AGM, and the reaction to Resolution 12, cannot be understated.

 

It cannot be understated because, guess what, there still appears to be an aversion to paying taxes over at Ibrox, a mentality they have inherited from the previous club, presumably to make up for not actually inheriting their history.

 

 

Phil MacGhiollabhan, the only proper journalist willing to talk about that which is forbidden in Scotland claims that the new club owed a seven figure sum in tax at the time of the first lockdown, which they are now paying off in instalments.

 

hectors back

 

This is significant.

 

Apart from the revelation that they are in the doo doo again, we have to consider the first time they were skint, and what was done to try to help them, which , of course, leads us back to Resolution 12.

 

Is this why Peter has finally decided he;s had enough ?

 

Does he think that they are at it again ?

 

Is he worried that Celtic supporters and shareholders, who have handed over money for merchandise and season books despite not being allowed to go to games in a show of support that is truly astonishing, might be reluctant to do so if they are allowed to succeed where the old club failed, and use european money to survive what is looking like an inevitable meltdown.

 

We saw unprecedented cheating as Rangers earned a place in the champions League ahead of their eventual liquidation.

 

Fortunately, there is little evidence to suggest the game is being rigged to make sure they get the chance to do it again.

 

If you don’t count whats going on on and off the field at the moment, that is.

 

Which seems to be a lot, and if this has worried Lawwell and Desmond, if they are aware that the support and shareholders will not tolerate it a second time, then are we about to see them finally do the right thing ?

 

Is Peter an honourable man ?

 

 

 

 

 

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Salad queen
7 days ago

No he is a cunt.

Fra Stone
7 days ago

should the SFA & by extension UEFA granted sevco a licence to participate in a European competition this year following this new information that Phil has come across?

7 days ago
Reply to  Fra Stone

It depends.

If they had disclosed the liability and had an agreed repayment plan, which it seems they did, then this would be different from 2011 and would be okay.

Whether they ticked all the boxes eg disclosure, is another matter.

I’m slightly dubious as I thought I’d previously seen a spreadsheet of all teams compliance and if the Huns had had a tax issue then I’m sure this would have been all over the Timternet.

Auldheid
7 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

Normally HMRC do not favour repayment plans, they aren’t a bank, but Covid meant a softer approach.
But you are correct under UEFA FFP a written agreement to postpone payment or in Covid circumstances take instalments, means that any tax from 2019 that has to be paid by 31st March (or UEFA start wondering about financial stability of the licence applicant) is not considered as overdue if not paid by then if such an agreement dated before 31 March exists.

mcklintop
7 days ago

Ralph would love to have confidence that Pete will be all over this but I, unfortunately, believe that Pete wants a sevco in the top flight cos he thinks it’s good for business. My preferred option is a financially hamstrung sevco plying their trade grubbing around the lower reaches of the game. Possibly ground sharing with Clydebank. Then their “supporters” (bigots looking for a march) will splinter into multiple “real” ranjurs outfits. This will lead to a civil war and they will eventually eat themselves.

A man can dream. Just need Pete to step up.

Yoker Bhoy
7 days ago
Reply to  mcklintop

I don’t think I like that idea of sevco ground sharing with Clydebank too much – in fact that would be a 3-way ground share scheme at Holm Park with Yoker Athletic, Clydebank and Sevco. I have quite a strong affection for the former two but I’d disown them completely if that were to happen 😉

On a more serious note, I wonder if it would be an idea for all the Celtic bloggers to come together and get a mammoth electronic petition circulating before the AGM so that everyone, including many thousands of Celtic fans living overseas, could sign it and send out a very clear message to Lawell and co of how we feel regarding Resolution 12 and all the disgusting SFA/sevco shenannigans.

Salad queen
7 days ago
Reply to  Yoker Bhoy

To true and lawwell is still a cunt

7 days ago
Reply to  Yoker Bhoy

Sorry to be negative but there have been several petitions over the years but none that has gained more than a few thousand signatures and merely cause a ripple.

They’ve been joint efforts before but not a total Timternet one, as far as I’m aware, but 8 years on I don’t believe the unengaged will suddenly get it.

Yoker Bhoy
7 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

Fair dos Cha, I just thought that in the light of the latest revelations and with what is at stake, maybe a serious shitstorm could be brewing, in which case it might be worth trying. You’re right that the hard part would be getting the message across to the real masses.

Auldheid
7 days ago
Reply to  Yoker Bhoy

One of the lessons of Res12 is that it needs to come from a support base of thousands. The fragmented officialy constituted smaller groups need to unify around something and so do supporters who are not shareholders or any group members.

The obvious choice to me is a larger version of the CST under David Lowe of which I will blog after the AGM is over.

Another lesson is MONEY to fight battles with Celtic on the same legal ground they retreat to in defence.

Funding Res 12 was nerve wracking, the lawyer was hired at a cheaper rate but still expensive and when the bills arrived the job was to find funding. Given the cause at the time was seen as a good one (more on that later) it arrived but it is not a basis for carrying out a strategy. £11k it cost over the years from 2014.

What I will say is that the Celtic support will not have a better opportunity to unite than what will emerge after the AGM unless PL pulls another BR out of the hat, the team become consistent and everyone loses interest – again

Duncan
7 days ago
Reply to  Auldheid

The only way to achieve change at Celtic is to change Celtic.
Perhaps if there was a concerted push for a fan controlled Celtic (as in Germany with the 50+1 model) then these matters would be dealt with aggressively rather than the passive stance we see over and over at the “Club”?
Since the share prices have taken a hit ther could be no better time than at the present to get behind something like that ,that could implement real change and not the Lip Service we see when anything untoward comes up.
I would gladly pay into something like this knowing that real change would be the final outcome.
Otherwise I’m afraid it will be more of the same at Celtic.
They have kicked this can so far up the road now it’s nearly in the highlands.

7 days ago
Reply to  Duncan

To achieve fan ownership, you need to take significant or overall control of the existing setup.

Talking about alternative models is just noise until the current model is addressed.

Duncan
6 days ago
Reply to  Duncan

@Cha
The 50+1 model in Germany is taking control but without losing the Investment factor.
Supporters/Fans will never get what they want so long as the control remains in the hands of a few with their own personal agendas.
When the likes of Dermot Desmond and Peter Lawwell do eventually move on they will simply be replaced with like minded individuals.
People in fine suits who Invest in Celtic the business with a view to making money on that Investment.
They aren’t interested in what makes a Club a Club for Supporters other than how they can best squeeze them for every penny they can for as long as they can.
You know it,I know it we all know it.
Nothing changes but the personnel but the pitch remains the same.
The model works in Germany and it could work well for Celtic too.
We have large numbers going to games and even larger numbers still interested in games.
The question is are the likes of Desmond willing to sell to the Support or more importantly anyone ever bothered to ask him?
I believe he may be open to doing it provided he remains in the background as a fail safe should it go wrong.
I also happen to think Supporters maybe be more inclined to take the chance if he or someone like him was willing to back us.
Otherwise what are the options?
More of the same or more of the same under new Management?
Is that really an option going forward?
I don’t think so Cha and I’m willing to bet that there are quite a few who are thinking that way too.
As has been pointed out these guys are heading for retirement age soon and may well be tempted by a share issue and final windfall before they go.

Auldheid
6 days ago
Reply to  Duncan

Ten significant shareholders hold 75% of the shares the balance is spread over around 2000 shareholders.

If they felt strongly enough about change and all had STs and refused to renew that would get attention.

The thing is what would make sufficient supporters angry enough to put self respect before loyalty to a totally unaccountable Board who treat them with contemp because of the very loyalty they show?

It’s not so much supporters dont know, more that they would rather not know.

For Celtic Park read Plato’s Cave.

6 days ago
Reply to  Auldheid

I wonder how many of the 2,000 actually vote, sadly I’d reckon its a small minority.

I and several others I know were part of the original share offers in 95 but no longer have STs.

My gut feeling is most small shareholders date from this time or the one from a few years later so are likely to be older than the majority of STs.

Even if 1,000 were still ST holders and gave up then this would likely easily replaced from the waiting list.

Auldheid
6 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

Not if the reasons that made 2000 angry enough to delay renewing were good ones. I only use 2000 because that is a figure relating to shareholders but if cause of dissatisfaction was strong enough the number would be far greater.

The big lie is that Celtic have as much distaste for Rangers as the Celtic support.

Those in charge do not and go to extraordinary lengths to keep that illusion and them alive.

It is all set out on the Res12 Archive https://res12.uk/ with more to be added to take the timeline up to the AGM .

What Celtic say, is not what they do and they do not do what you would expect them to if the distaste was real

They are handed hard evidence that they were defrauded in 2011 and refused to handle it and then spin shareholders a line at the last AGM in 2019 about sanctions not applying, a line only possible by ignoring the fraud period they were provide with evidence of in 2018.

At the same AGM Lawwell denies sight of the 5 Way Agreement that was attached to an e mail to him from Doncaster in July 2012 stating no reply by next day will be taken as acceptance.

They are given hard evidence in 2014 that would see the LNS Commission overturned, the one that allowed titles won by 10 years of cheating to be kept, they accept an agreement that stops justice being applied to events in 2011 and do nothing to oppose the LNS Decision in 2013, in fact take a powder.

They stubbornly refuse to have the grant of UEFA licence in 2011 to go to UEFA. They misdirect shareholders down a judicial cul de sac created by the 5 Way Agreement they were party to.

The only beneficiaries of the foregoing are “Rangers” whose team who might just rob Celtic supporters of the joy of 10 in a row because of a failure to contain their financial recklessness in 2012 and their supporters who love the illusion of going for 55 enabled by the concealment of dishonesty, that allowed LNS to say “Whilst there is no question of dishonesty” and categorise 10 years of cheating as an administrative error.

Only ignorance of such events can explain the support being so docile or being treated as mugs is OK as long as the results are.

When Celtic say as they do when responding to Res12 that they will always act in the Company’s interest, if that requires lying to the supporters/shareholders then that is what they do simply because they have the supporters permission to.

Auldheid
6 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

Not if the reasons that made 2000 angry enough to delay renewing were good ones. I only use 2000 because that is a figure relating to shareholders but if cause of dissatisfaction was strong enough the number would be far greater.

The big lie is that Celtic have as much distaste for Rangers as the Celtic support.

Those in charge do not and go to extraordinary lengths to keep that illusion and them alive.

It is all set out on the Res12 Archive with more to be added to take the timeline up to the AGM .

What Celtic say, is not what they do and they do not do what you would expect them to if the distaste was real

They are handed hard evidence that they were defrauded in 2011 and refused to handle it and then spin shareholders a line at the last AGM in 2019 about sanctions not applying, a line only possible by ignoring the fraud period they were provide with evidence of in 2018.

At the same AGM Lawwell denies sight of the 5 Way Agreement that was attached to an e mail to him from Doncaster in July 2012 stating no reply by next day will be taken as acceptance.

They are given hard evidence in 2014 that would see the LNS Commission overturned, the one that allowed titles won by 10 years of cheating to be kept, they accept an agreement that stops justice being applied to events in 2011 and do nothing to oppose the LNS Decision in 2013, in fact take a powder.

They stubbornly refuse to have the grant of UEFA licence in 2011 to go to UEFA. They misdirect shareholders down a judicial cul de sac created by the 5 Way Agreement they were party to.

The only beneficiaries of the foregoing are “Rangers” whose team who might just rob Celtic supporters of the joy of 10 in a row because of a failure to contain their financial recklessness in 2012 and their supporters who love the illusion of going for 55 enabled by the concealment of dishonesty, that allowed LNS to say “Whilst there is no question of dishonesty” and categorise 10 years of cheating as an administrative error.

Only ignorance of such events can explain the support being so docile or being treated as mugs is OK as long as the results are.

When Celtic say as they do when responding to Res12 that they will always act in the Company’s interest, if that requires lying to the supporters/shareholders then that is what they do simply because they have the supporters permission to.

Jinkylarrson
7 days ago

Please, please,please at the A.G.M. vote for these cheats to be sent packing from Scottish football. They got away with E.B.Rd once.

Mike
7 days ago

Is Peter still an honourable man? The term ‘honour’ means a person of high respect, esteem, one who does things, like his job with integrity and honesty. What else should we expect of a Celtic F.C. Chief Executive Officer, after all our club was formed by a Marist brother, so you would expect him to be ‘honourable’. When you learn that he was a recipient of the 5 Way Agreement, whether he read it or not might be immaterial, because he knew what was in it, Neil Doncaster did send it to him, for ‘his eyes only’. How he also sidetracked the Resolutioner’s about Res.12, now Res.11, then his honour has left the Celtic boardroom along with his integrity and honesty. We must never lose sight of the crooks and the tax cheats from Govan, or the part that Scottish footballs governing bodies, the SFA- SPL played in the dishonesty and the cheating. But surely you expect better from a Celtic CEO and a Celtic board. It’s never too late to call out those that cheated our club, the fraudsters Deadco F.C. the governing bodies, they have had 7 years to clean it all up, time get the dusters out…

Cartvale88
7 days ago

There is no interest of the senior levels at Parkhead to look into the blue pound and all the issues therein.
There fears were and are if there is no Wankers FC this will impinge on their wealth. They have allowed Celtic to be sidetracked always going for the cheaper option. Currently there are serious issues at Parkhead, but the pandemic is allowing the CEO and board to do nothing. Hopefully it will not be when they are going over the cliff edge, that they realise the error and stupidity of their husbandry.

James
7 days ago

Don’t hold your breath and as for the support buying into the charade again, don’t make me laugh,they’ll do it willingly just to make sure they get a season ticket.

7 days ago

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” probably erroneously attributed to Einstein.

Lawwell has been in post for 17 years and he acts (and doesn’t act) in exactly the same way as he’s always done.

If he is the last hope then all hope is lost.

Auldheid
7 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

I predict with some confidence he will not be CEO at next AGM. All trust has gone.

6 days ago
Reply to  Auldheid

Who’s trust has gone?

He still seems to retain the support of the high-heid yin(s) at Celtic Park and that is what counts in terms of votes etc.

He may not be around by AGM 2021 but he’s been around 17 years and is over 60, so may wish to retire (dis)gracefully.

At the end of the day he’s merely a functionary, so if he goes and its BAU under the new CE then that’s not progress, as far as I’m concerned.

Auldheid
6 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

You will not be surprised to hear that those who deal with him stop trusting him.

Very duplicitous but it keeps him in a job because he is good at it.

6 days ago
Reply to  Auldheid

I doubt he’s ever been duplicitous to Desmond, as he’d be long gone.

There again that’s what such types to; they know who they can and can’t be duplicitous to.

BroxburnBhoy
6 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

You are right Cha:

Becker traced the original back to Rita Mae Brown, the mystery novelist. In her 1983 book “Sudden Death,” she attributes the quote to a fictional “Jane Fulton,” writing, “Unfortunately, Susan didn’t remember what Jane Fulton once said. ‘Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.'”

Duncan
7 days ago

Time will tell as always meanwhile…

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sfa unfit for purpose
7 days ago

On the Covid front , It is now illegal to go to an airport in Scotland , but it is Not illegal to get on a flight ?
Also a mate came back from the Canaries 10 days ago , flying into Glasgow airport. No mention of Covid rules before , during and after the flight to Glasgow and no testing for anyone arriving.
Are we trying to prolong this virus ?

6 days ago

I believe airports and flights are a reserved matter, so are under the (out of) control of the UK government.

You are clearly arguing in support of Independence, which you are obviously entitled to do.

sfa unfit for purpose
4 days ago
Reply to  The Cha

You clearly do not understand the point.
Scottish government can easily implement testing at Scottish airports.
In fact the union representing airport workers has been asking repeatedly for this for months.
But refusing to cooperate with inquiries , refusing to let implicated Ministers from appearing before said committee is more important than even basic temperature tests at airports.
Your constant refusal to ever accept Any criticism of the Scottish government is worrying.

6 days ago

The fans were disgruntled season tickets around the 15 to 20k was the figure Peter was watching. The cup semi final defeat to the huns a massive blow. The top tier would remain closed.Step forward Dermot and the Brendan factor.
With the flick of a switch 60k and 20k waiting list. A feel good factor and a move to a more professional approach which led to the invincibles and a double treble.
Life was good res 12 put back.
Fast forward a team in decline a puppet for Lawwell to use as his manager and the dark days returning. The fans now seem desperate for the board to act as the 10 in a row dream fades.
You see res 12 didn’t matter to most.
Hampden was more important than integrity days out on cup finals we feasted on them and forgot our own principles. We are to blame as much as anyone else.
So blame Peter the board or whoever else but we are the masters of our own downfall.
Success we enjoyed maybe just a little too much as we took our eye off the ball.

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