As Others See Us

OnThe ShouldersofGiants responded to one or two tweets I had made regarding my interpretation of events at Kilmarnock. 

As ever, we value the right of reply to anyone who wants it, and this piece is much more enlightening than probably anything you’ll hear, read or see in the SMSM over the next few days as the old Two Cheeks of the Same Arse argument gets an airing, 

It is important that we see ourselves as others see us, for only then can we truly see our faults. More importantly, as far as the bigger picture is concerned, it perhaps shows just why there is a two cheeks of the same arse argument in the first place. 

It may be that in order to fight the good fight against corruption and to move our game forward we need to treat the towns in Scotland the same way as we treat the cities of Europe. And behave accordingly. 

By the way, he went to the same school as me. 

Try to read this with an open mind, and it will give you something to think about. 

Ghandi, in the quote above, has a point.

 

As a Kilmarnock fan, I left Sunday’s match with Celtic at Rugby Park not only disappointed at the result but also angry at some of the scenes I witnessed around, and inside, the ground on the day. Perhaps, I was a little more sensitive than normal because I’d taken the plunge and decided to take my young nephew along to his first Old Firm encounter and I’d specifically chosen this game rather than one against the other ‘Ugly Sister’ to ease him into the unique protocols and rituals of these particular fixtures.
I did this for a number of reasons.
Firstly, as a Killie fan, I’ve never enjoyed the distorting effect of the Glasgow giants on the Scottish game but I’ve always had a particular distaste for Rangers and everything the club stood for. Culturally, politically and sociologically, I’ve always had more in common with the ‘green’ than the ‘blue’. And, although, I have acquaintances from both sides of the chasm, I only have actual close friends on the Celtic side. Indeed, one of my closest friends (not a celebrity, an ordinary fan) is so well-known amongst the Celtic support that it’s almost impossible to walk into an Irish pub with him, anywhere in the world, without the first round appearing magically on the bar.
Secondly, I’ve attended too many Hun hate-fests to want my nephew exposed to the vile behaviour of what always seems to be such a sizeable proportion of the Rangers support, rather than a few moronic individuals.
In short, I just believed that he would have a better experience going to watch Killie vs Celtic rather than Killie vs Rangers.
Despite this, I know that some people reading this will still reject it as some kind of bitter rant from an institutionalised, west of Scotland bigot who has bought into the pro-Masonic, anti-Catholic narrative of the corrupt Scottish media/football authorities/political elite… and all the other usual bollocks.

However, I’m not talking to them. I’m talking to those that care about their club and who are able to think for themselves.
Which brings us to Sunday.
Those of you who have been to Rugby Park will know that it is situated in a relatively nice residential area. Unlike most other football grounds in Scotland, it is not in an industrial or commercial area, with limited housing close by.

It is, then, not a suitable place for grown men to be urinating in the street like cattle.

Christ, it would be bad enough at any ground with children and women milling about but, after parking my car on Dundonald Road, we witnessed one old man (clearly a pensioner) emerging from his house to remonstrate with a clearly drunken Celtic supporter relieving himself on to the fella’s driveway. He was told to “Get tae fuck back intae yer hoose or Ah’ll be pishing on you, ya auld cunt.”

Surprisingly, perhaps, none of the ‘greatest supporters in the world’ who witnessed this scene said anything to their fellow supporter or apologised on his behalf to the old guy.
As I walked past, perhaps stupidly, and definitely (I admit) sarcastically, I told him that although we “might not be as cultured as Baillieston or Shettleston, but we do have toilets inside the ground at Kilmarnock.”
When he threatened to boot my seven year old nephew’s arse, I stopped and turned only to be eased away by another Celtic fan (presumably his mate) who assured me they’d sort him out and get him into the ground. Fair play to the boy for intervening but, personally, if my mate was so blootered he was behaving like that, I’d have put him back on the bus.
Inside the ground, I spoke to the other season ticket holders around me about the incident. Two had come to the ground from the opposite direction via Rugby Road and they claimed that there were half a dozen Celtic fans pissing in the street at that end of the ground. I have no way to verify these claims because I didn’t witness them but I have no reason to disbelieve the people who told me either.
My nephew then got his first look at the Green Brigade gathered at the north-east corner of the Chadwick Stand. Now clearly, there’s some diversity class that I’ve missed during my police and teaching career (and believe me, I’ve been on a few) but I fail to see the psychological imperatives that provoke seemingly grown adults to ponce about in paramilitary fancy dress (including some in face-masks) as if they are the Second Coming of the Visigoths (or, indeed, the Huns).

In my police experience, it really was the quiet ones you had to watch. Those that feel the need to portray themselves as some kind of rampaging, revolutionary people’s army are clearly inadequate in some way, needing the protection and anonymity of the herd to be a ‘face’ (especially if they’re too scared to actually show it).
I truly hope, that to most decent Celtic supporters, these people are considered an embarrassment to the Club.
I can just about understand the Green Brigade’s need to chant pro-IRA slogans as a response to the jingoistic British nationalism and vile sectarianism of Rangers and, perhaps, Hearts fans. To feel the need to do it at Rugby Park – whose supporters don’t give a toss about such matters and where it is a redundant gesture – is verging on the deranged. If you want to support a football club, just do it. If you want to be a hero in a glorious struggle against overwhelming odds, put your money where your muffled, hidden mouth is and toddle off to Palestine and take on the Israeli army. At least there, you’ll be doing us all a good turn.
Of course, they then compounded their ludicrous behaviour by setting off flares inside the ground. To indulge themselves in this way is just a further expression of the entitled attitude that fans of both Old Firm clubs have that they’re big enough to do whatever they want and there will be limited, if any, reaction from the authorities. A bit like pissing in the street, perhaps.
Then we had the coin-throwing incident…
Social media, including this site was awash with conspiracy theories from Celtic fans.
It happened in front of the Kilmarnock dugout; which means it was in front of a home stand; which means it was a home fan; and the authorities probably know who did it so are deflecting attention away from that.

Look! Look! You can see the Butcher’s Aprons hanging behind Boyd near the dugout.
Now, I know that Killie fans have a reputation for being critical of our team but this, I believe, would be the first instance in our history of us throwing coins at our own players.
And ‘Butcher’s Aprons’ at Rugby Park? Give me a break!
Of course, it soon became clear. That ‘dugout’ is disabled seating at Rugby Park. In front of the Moffat Stand. The Moffat Stand filled with Celtic fans. And the Union Jacks were nothing more offensive than security tape.
Aah, but; aah, but… Boyd brought it on himself by warming up in front of the Celtic fans. Yeah, there’s nothing more infuriating to a died-in-the-wool Bhoy than an ageing, slightly-overweight footballer in a tracksuit doing some stretching exercises. Not antagonising anyone. Not making any gestures. Stretching.
Really, Celtic apologists; get a fucking grip! Perhaps what actually incited the Neanderthal coin-thrower were the chants of ‘Dirty Orange bastard’ and ‘fat Orange bastard’. But that clearly couldn’t have happened because – as we all know in Scottish football – only the Rangers fans are bigots…
These conspiracy theories also ignore the fact that all subs at Kilmarnock warm-up at the goal ends of the stadium – home and away players. And this is the first instance, I can remember of any of our players or away players having coins thrown at them as they warmed up.
It is a similar incident, I suppose, to the fan who threw a Bovril at Eamonn Brophy after he’d scored about two weeks ago. Who was that against? Oh, yes. Rangers. That’s fine company you’re keeping.
I have very few complaints about the game itself. Celtic were, marginally, the better side but were running out of ideas and didn’t look like scoring until Broadfoot’s fully-deserved red card reduced us to ten men. One small point, though. If Broadfoot’s red was because he endangered an opponent, then how much more dangerous was Brown’s tackle on Taylor in the first half – a two-footed lunge, both feet off the ground, and studs into the calf of Taylor’s planted, standing leg.

Never mind, though, those are the decisions you have to accept as a supporter of a non-Old Firm club.
I don’t even have any massive complaints about the Celtic supporters who jumped the barriers at the Chadwick Stand when Brown scored. I can understand the euphoria of a last minute goal.
Except that the last time you graced Rugby Park with your presence, Stuart Finlay scored a last minute winner. We were exuberant. We were euphoric. We didn’t feel the need, however, to jump onto the pitch to show it. But then, of course, we are not the ‘greatest fans in the world’.
What I did have a problem with was the dozen (or thereabouts) morons who decided they needed to get involved from the Moffat Stand at the opposite end of the ground. Here, however, I agree with this site that the stewards and, particularly, the police did not react quickly, or effectively, enough. That aside, the rotund gentleman who waddled up the pitch, with the crack of his arse showing as his trackies nearly tripped him, is very lucky it was a laid-back Stevie O’Donnell he wandered up to and gave a wanker sign to. The ‘photography fan’ who wandered about the pitch for 90 seconds getting selfies with Celtic players was also in danger of creating a response from home fans that could have erupted into a much more serious incident. If your fans want to excuse this behaviour then fine, go ahead but please, in future, spare us the sanctimonious claptrap about how you are very different from the Sevconians.

The Celtic players, too, should have a look at themselves in the cold light of day to consider whether they reacted to these provocations in an appropriate manner.
And the broken seats? Again, it’s merely exuberance. Presumably the same exuberance after the ‘Stuart Finlay game’ that led to broken seats.
Then it was a design fault. A sign of the poor standards at Rugby Park. Well, I sit in the East Stand. Seats of the same design. Same gaps between them. And, believe it or not, we do score goals at Rugby Park – including last minute winners (have I mentioned Stuart Finlay?) – and I have yet to see the ‘exuberance’ of the Killie fans damage any seats. The fact that it is becoming a regular occurrence for the Celtic board to get the chequebook out after visits to others’ grounds should tell you everything you need to know. Again, a startling resemblance to our friends from Ibrox…

You know, whether you believe me or not, I’m speaking as a friend.

And a friend should tell you when you’re going wrong. So that you can be better. If you want to be better. And that means, I’m afraid, calling out your own supporters when they get it wrong. It might also mean, and I realise how difficult this might be for some, grasping the nettle that is the Green Brigade.
Celtic fans – real Celtic fans – it’s over to you.

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Domestos
1 year ago

A brave and interesting article to post. Will be interesting to see folks reaction. I personally feel it’s time the IRA stuff was put to bed. It’s from a bygone era and it’s too simplistic to say the Provisional IRA were freedom fighters. Some pitch black atrocities committed by all sides in that conflict. If folk feel that strongly about Irish nationalism then they should join appropriate pressure groups and political parties. Leave it out of football. It’s embarrassing to be honest from a group of supporters who have penned some magic songs over the years. I’m dead proud of our Irish heritage but you wont find any mention of the IRA in our long and magnificent history!

Owenzy
1 year ago

An enlightening read, and many valid points made.
I pray that the experience hasn’t put your nephew off attending future Killie matches, as we all realize that “Football without fans is nothing” but sometimes, football can do without some “fans”
Owenzy.

Greenmaestro
1 year ago

Chapeau!

Sery
1 year ago

Here here; the Kilmarnock fan is quite right.
We are getting every bit as bad as you know who.
Let’s stop the IRA and palastine drivel and support
the team in a responsible manner.
Flares no more.

Kenny McCaffrey
1 year ago

Well said pal x

Westendtim
1 year ago

I’m not getting involved in the who does what worse than anyone else, however within your report you identify a number of behaviours that should be a norm irrespective of a football perspective- urinating in the street is not acceptable anywhere at any time. The inability of grown men to moderate their own behaviour in the presence of children irregardlesss of location is disgraceful. I have been proud to support my team for over 50 years and for most of that time it’s been easy as we inevitably held the moral high ground, if we can’t moderate how we behave as a support then we can have no complaints if we are viewed as the second ugly sister!

1 year ago

An interesting and thought provoking piece if somewhat blinkered and unbalanced.

Sectarian chanting and personal abuse of this kind has no place in a football stadium and certainly no place in general society.

Celtic needs to do something about this regardless of what the football authorities do.

Equally, assaults on opposition players by throwing coins or otherwise should be met with lifetime bans and referral to the police, and Celtic supporters themselves need also to be more proactive in this respect.

However regarding other comments about Celtic supporters and players behaviour, there appears to be a bit of selective recall going on.

Urinating in the street whilst offensive and repulsive to most people is not the exclusive preserve of the wrongly named ” Old Firm “, ( which doesn’t exist) as anyone who has ever been to a Scotland game at Hampden will attest, and it is also disingenuous to imply that Killie fans don’t indulge in such behavior, or indeed display sectarian attitudes themselves, as I have experienced on various occasions at a number of Scottish grounds including Rugby Park.

Similarly, while mention was made of Celtic players behaviour, nothing was said about 3 Killie players confronting an 18 year old Black Celtic player near the end of the game, the motivation for which remains open to question. Also,the Broadfoot assault was a red all day long, and even most neutral observers have stated that the Brown tackle was nowhere near as egregious.

Finally with regard to Boyd. As I have said previously, no person should have to put up with such attacks particularly at their place of employment.

However, Boyd has a record of making unwarranted attacks on Celtic, via his press column, and again one would have to seriously question his motivation here given his cultural origins and employment history. Disingenuous again to say the least.

His current employer, Kilmarnock, appears to have made no attempt to curtail this undoubtedly provocative and agenda laden behaviour,as indeed have the football authorities in Scotland.

So, please, criticise where it is warranted, but the criticism would be much more credible with a bit of balance, context and fairness.

Thewhitearra
1 year ago

Season ticket holder, who hasn’t been to an away game since Hibs, August 2009 – and its not because of the Home supporters behaviour…

Andy Gallagher
1 year ago

This guy is spot on. We have an element of Neanderthals who bring shame to the club. I have seen the same pishing in the streets many, many times and I certainly wouldn’t like it near my house. If we want to criticise others we need to get our own house in order. Hail hail.

BJF
1 year ago

Really decent article and four comment, we have a small
percentage Of fans whom continually let us down with flares, pitch invasions and now one half wit rhrowing a coin. The problem is a small percentage of the biggest club in Scotland is a lot more than a small percentage of the littler clubs and therefore it stands out.. Bottom line we don’t need it , we are the biggest club and used to be the best fans. The fact there is a club maybe two in my experience who are worse doesn’t excuse bad behaviour. It would be good if Celtic fans and Celtic stewards were available to identify culprits.

Mike A
1 year ago

Very apposite post. We don’t want anyone saying ah but…..ah but. Let’s accept we have a problem and work to sort it out, club and fans together and that includes the GB. Improve behaviour, stop flares, self police. Chanting out we win awards forcfan behaviour doesntvwash when individuals behave in this way. Our record is being besmirched and weakened.

1 year ago

Ralph,

My first comment is it has been excruciating logging on to ETims today. If I took as long in the mornings my incontenence breeks wouldn’t cope 🙁

H H

1 year ago
Reply to  Pensionerbhoy

It’s a bad day when posting a comment takes longer than a 2nd class Royal Mail delivery 🙂

H H

Giggsy
1 year ago

Read many similar comments on Celtic sites over the years. We have a problem with those who indulge in anti-social behavior as they think that they can and that being in a crowd makes them invisible and untouchable. The unfortunate thing is that these guys would also behave the same in any high street at 3am in the morning after a night out. The club know we have a problem hence the recent meetings between supporters groups and independents to discuss.

What the guy describes happens around football grounds, concert venues etc up and down the country when groups of young lads get together drink to much and take loads of drugs. I attend loads of games – outwith Celtic – and see it in EVERY travelling support at every level of the game in Scotland.

With Celtic it’s on a larger scale due to the larger support.

There is a larger problem here and it comes from the treatment of football fans. We are treated as criminals. Treated like uncoth thugs. Is it any surprise that some act like that? It has got much much worse since since 2012. I wonder what law was brought in then?

For me, there is a misrepresentation of what the Celtic identity is. It’s been lost in this social media age where you have to be polar opposites. We are seeing this in our younger supporters.

We as a support have always been political and have a social conciseness. That is misunderstood now by those who follow us and those who don’t in these dangerous times where extreme views shout loudest and find a willing audience.

The songs sung are now passed. They no longer have relevance if they ever did. I love that we focus on Palestine and we should be highlighting Foodbanks and other things blighting our community instead of a war that ended many moons ago and many more who are more intelligent than us have failed to unravel.

I will always defend our identity as it is what makes us different and hated (only us and Liverpool fans seem to be universally hated in their own countries – like most I have been abused at every away ground in Scotland, Motherwell and Aberdeen have been the worst in the last year – was call a Fenian pedo while walking with my daughter to both cup finals) but it’s difficult to defend when it is only used to offend, used to hide behind anti social behavior and is as progressive as those they claim to oppose.

We need to condemn bigotry, remind those of our history but we also need to understand the new fascination with ultra culture and not just decry.

Good can come of this. But we need to be positive and have answers. Not just shout with a primal scream.

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  Giggsy

We haven’t gone away you know!

The Cha
1 year ago

An article that wouldn’t be out of place in the Record or FollowFollow.

I can give it no higher praise that that.

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  The Cha

I agree Cha this is an insidious extension of MSM nonsense. I personally am uninterested in this persons views of Celtic and our supporters. Having been abused as a fenian bastard etc at almost every ground in Scotland not to mention when at school or at work, anything written by someone who can never understand that and who clearly doesn’t take it into account falls flat and uninformed. Those in here who resonate with this piece need to take a good look at yourselves and your misplaced support of this. It’s pure Daily record

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  BroxburnBhoy

BB,
spot on!

1 year ago

I could claim I told you so a few diaries ago but will not. There were no adverse comments then if I recall, but that could be because such criticisms are more palatable from one of your own.

I did not witness first hand any of the incidents narrated in the article but have in the past witnessed similar. I reiterate what I said a couple of days ago that there are songs being sung that have nothing to do with Celtic or musical accomplishment. They are sung purely to antagonise. I also mentioned yesterday that the growing adverse publicity surrounding the increasing violent and other behaviour of Celtic supporters in recent years may have contributed to the pre-prepared aggression of the police in Valentia. In addition, I have not been alone over many years in condemning the use of the dangerous, childish and totally unnecessary pyrotechnics that contribute absolutely nothing to the match experience but endanger the health and even perhaps the lives of spectators. It verges on, no may even be criminal. I say all of this not to pat myself on the back as a clever clogs but because I have been ashamed at the growing similarity between our support and those we so readily condemn on a daily basis.

I understand the anger and frustration of supporters from outside of Glasgow. They are as paranoid as we are about favouritism towards “the big two” – I question if there are a “big two” any more – and, perhaps, with as much justification or misconception as ourselves. However, I would challenge the notion that all of the bad behaviour in question is limited to “the big two”. I have been to Celtic matches all over Scotland from Stranraer to Inverness and can honestly say that over a period of 70 years, I have experienced unsocial behaviour, violence, aggression and sectarianism from every support I have mixed with. As for peeing in public, could the writer honestly say he has only witnessed this by Celtic fans or those from Ibrox? I have seen buses parked at roadsides from all parts of this grand little country to allow “passengers” to relieve themselves. I am not condoning it by any means but I do not accept it is restricted to the fans of “the big two” or even football supporters in general. Furthermore, I can, hand on heart, say that things must have drastically changed at Rugby Park because, in years gone by, bigotry and sectarianism was quite intense in that very ground. It is somewhat ingenuous to insinuate the behavioural problems around football in Scotland – and, dare I say, globally – are confined to “the big two” and perhaps a n other. I would also contend the sectarian problem permeates a much wider social group than football fans. In many ways it is endemic in Scottish society as a result of some unique historical, social and religious circumstances. I am more than prepared to admit that recent Catholic retaliation may now be, if in many cases inadvertently, converting to a sectarianism all of its own making. From that stand point, I agree with the writer when he calls for us to look first within before seeking change without.

Fellow Celtic supporters, the club’s and our own well-earned exceptional reputation seems to be eroding. We are increasingly providing effective ammunition to those who seek to dismantle us. This article awakens us to how others perceive us, rightly, wrongly or with good cause and we need to start undoing the damage. We are football supporters, faithful through and through who can and ought to admit we have let things slip. We need to restore our reputation everywhere so that we can be recognised as the greatest support in the world. We need to give people like the writer absolutely no reasons for special criticism, otherwise such supporters of other clubs could end up, with the help of willing authorities, destroying us. Scaremongering? I hope so, because we need to act now and restore our club’s and our supporters’ reputation to the standards set in 1888, caring for the welfare of others through faithful and impeccable support of our club. Come on Bhoys. Chuck the trash and do it!

H H

As the writer of the original article, I’d like to respond to a few of the comments here.
First of all, I’d like to thank Ralph for placing the article on the site in the first place. As he said, we were at school together and I think he trusts me to tell it as it was at Rugby Park on Sunday – or, at least, how I saw it.
Secondly, I think the general response has been magnificent. Committed fans who want to see their support become better. These are the Celtic supporters I know. They realise that things are going wrong and that some things need to be addressed.
Let me also say, however, that this is not directed at Celtic supporters in general but at the very specific groups and individuals I have highlighted.
There have been a number of very fair points made by respondents. An idiotic minority of a very large travelling support will always be more visible than the misdeeds of other samller supports.
I also would never claim – and didn’t in the article – that there won’t be bigots in the Kilmarnock crowd. There will be. However, it is definitely not a feature that you would associate with Kilmarnock as a club and I can assure you that I have been in the East Stand when supporters making bigoted or, indeed, racial comments have been shouted down by those around them. If any of you go onto Killie supporters web forums, you will immediately see posts attacking anyone who makes those kinds of comments. So, I believe those that said it has happened to them but can anyone really claim that there is there regular experience of RugbY Park? I certainly hope not.
I also never claimed that other fans don’t indulge in poor behaviour. Clearly they do. Kilmarnock included. Indeed, I recently had a row on a fan forum with a ned who rejoiced in the fact that a Hamilton minibus had been attacked and damaged. But, that’s the point – we, as supporters of all clubs – must challenge those amongst us who do these things. Not seek justification through some kind of outrageous conspiracy theory that it was the responsibility or fault of someone else.
Finally, I really do resent the contributor who claimed you could find this article in the Daily Record or on Follow, Follow. You, sir, and I mean this in the kindest possible way, are part of the problem and need to re-evaluate how you respond to the issues raised.
To those trying to constructively address the issues – may I wish you the very best in your endeavours; and here’s something I thought I’d never say…’Hail Hail’.

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago

Nonsense you would turn Celtic into a benign plastic club with no context or history. Celtic is a proud and passionate club forged out of Irish roots and supported mostly by the Irish diaspora in scotland and overseas. Those who support Celtic from other cultures and places accept that context and history and happily join it. We are rooted in Our Irish context in Scotland and represent the success of Irish immigrants in a new land. We have links with Irish republicans and I would say most Celtic supporters believe in reunification of Ireland as a republic and many have family members who fought for that aspiration. We are proud and strong we can stand for ourselves and when we are faced with racism and bigotry we meet it head on. People having a pish in a garden thats not theirs happens every night of the week ffs. To try and make that an issue that defines Celtic and us as supporters is insidious as I said and you clearly have no clue about Celtic what and who we are.

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  BroxburnBhoy

BB,
I think this guy likes a prawn cocktail.

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

Oh I’m sure of it Monti

The Cha
1 year ago

Obviously the truth hurts.

You pretty much state at the start that anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot and self-flagellating Celtic fans heaping mindless praise on you is what you were after.

‘greatest supporters in the world’

The only time I hear this from anyone other than Celtic fans is bitter Huns and sure enough Boyd raised it, as it clearly enrages them but why you?

Green Brigade

As a match attending Celtic fan I couldn’t identify any members and I doubt if many people could, as there’s about 200 of them in crowds of thousands. There is of course a media stereotype “of everything that’s wrong with young people today”. It’s a simple bullshit cipher than, if someone is talking about about them like this it’s pure Record-speak.

“paramilitary fancy dress”

Another moronic media stereotype that’s been relentlessly and brilliant lampooned.

“Celtic players was also in danger of creating a response from home fans that could have erupted into a much more serious incident.”

Mm, now it’s getting interesting; the fans of the blue team are so enraged with the sight of the green team’s fans celebrating that they provoke a violent confrontation. Pretty sure, we’ve seen that movie before.

I take it back, it’s not that this could’ve been in the Record, it has been many times.

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  The Cha

Spot on Cha

Mike
1 year ago

Its alway’s nice to be compared to “Rangers” the club that was always wide open to everyone, the one whose follow followers, slit the throat of a 16 year old Celtic supporter, Mark Scott’s murder was supposed to be the catalyst for change in bigot-ville. But see how far we have travelled, backwards perhaps. Or the mayhem witnessed in the streets and bars around Europe. Recently two fans of other clubs stabbed yards from the front gates in Govan. You know the football club that cost the taxpayers around £150 million GBP. Cheated its way into the C.L. in 2012. The club whose support’s is steeped in centuries ago. They give unruly a bad name, a disgusting club filled to the upper tiers with bigots. Oh, we know all about them and so does the “pie man” Kris union jack Boyd, Mr EBT £215 thousand squidgies. Bless, The one who always finds time to run to the press with made up stories about Celtic, Brendan’s leaving, dressing room splits, bad Celtic. Strangely this fitba. player never talks about the team from Govan, never has much to say about liquidation, EBT’s or tax, naw. What about how Kilmarnock charge the Celtic support more to watch their team play than any other club, not mentioned, or how breathtakingly good the Kilmarnock support are, no “Hello Hello” from them. Having said all of that, pensioner’s do need to piss more than most, but their is no excuse for anti-social behaviour ask Kris about that cos he knows more about it than me…

Monti
1 year ago

UP THE FUCKING ‘RA!!!

Auldeid
1 year ago

It is good to see oorsels as ithers see us from an Ayrshire man (if only some power granted us the giftie 🙂 )

This issue of supporter behaviour is one that surfaces regularly.

One major occasion was in 2008 when the Famine Song prompted this response at the 2008 Celtic AGM from Chairman John Reid.

John Reid’s Statement at Celtic AGM 2008 based on an internal interview.

Why did you decide to speak out about ‘The Famine Song’ and is it important that the club make sure that our supporters protect the integrity of Celtic’s name?

I spoke out about it because this is a pretty vile song and I don’t think that any reasonable person who has read the words of this song can see it as anything other than a pretty vicious, racist song.

It combines racism and sectarianism and goes beyond a lot of other things that we have seen in the past. That’s one of the reasons why I spoke out and I also come from Irish and Scottish descent myself, so that’s the main reason.

BUT THERE IS A BIGGER AND WIDER REASON AS WELL AND THAT IS THE NATURE OF THIS CLUB

We are proud of the fact that we have Scottish origins and Irish heritage and we are never going to deny that. We will defend that and that is not a cause for shame, it’s a cause for recognition and celebration.

Indeed our very name ‘Celtic’ is about the unity of the Scottish and Irish people. It stands against those who would divide, discriminate and oppose those two entities. And because we start from that basis of the unity of peoples then we have always been open and inclusive as a club.

That’s why traditionally we have never discriminated. That’s why our board, our shareholders, our footballers and our footballing heroes come from all sorts of different backgrounds, religions, ethnic groups and do so internationally.

That’s why I said last year that whatever differences we have when we come into this club we leave them at the door because we believe truly, in a Scotland that is one bit of many cultures and is way beyond now being Scots and Irish.

That is our stance, therefore we have to speak out when we see racism or sectarianism being practised and of course, if we are going to do that WE HAVE TO PRACTISE WHAT WE PREACH.

We have to be careful, from our own point of view and that’s why I am absolutely delighted that our fans in recent years have had accolades from the world football authorities, from the European football authorities and let me say when I point out that there may be a minority who are transgressing our own rules, that they are our own rules.

I don’t know any Celtic fans who have been chanting racist slogans or anything of that nature, so I am not comparing like with like here.

BUT I AM SAYING THAT WE HAVE GOT TO BE WHITER THAN WHITE AND THAT WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN AND TO EDUCATE EVERYBODY AT THIS CLUB, INCLUDING THAT TINY MINORITY WHICH AT AWAY GAMES SOMETIMES LEAVES US EXPOSED TO THOSE WHO WOULD ATTEMPT TO SAY THAT WE ARE ALL THE SAME

WE AREN’T ALL THE SAME, but we have to make sure that that is evident to everybody.

THATS THE NATURE OF CELTIC FOOTBALL CLUB.

The most important parts are highlighted in Capitals with two comments.

1. It is almost impossible for human beings to be whiter than white and pulling on a green and white jersey does not confer sainthood. Nevertheless it is correct to aspire to a level of civil behaviour that is an example to all. Certainly whilst NOT pishing in the street isn’t a sign of sainthood, it is evidence of a maturity beyond the nappy stage and the capacity to learn.

2. That statement was made in 2008, over 10 years ago. A lot has happened in that time with a younger generation who have yet to learn life’s lessons through the experience they do not yet have, perhaps they need a reminder of what Celtic signify to the broad church of their support?

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  Auldeid

PISH

rondo52
1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

or perhaps his tenas are full!!

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

Howes that? 🙂

For me
When you go to support your club home or away you are an ambassador for your club and you should be aiming to leave a good impression on the people of the city or town you visit.

You as an individual are responsible for your own actions

BJF
1 year ago

But of a worry that people who profess shock/ horror when “Rangers” fans misbehave run away when Celtic supporters betray the club, it’s bad from them but ok for us, really. I guess a bigot is a bigot!

Peter C McGillan
1 year ago

I thought the Killie fan made his points very well.I believe he tried to be balnced and fair minded.He says he is a friend and I believe him.He obiously has no time for the ANGRY MOB.
iT IS IMPORTANT TO SEE OORSELVES AS ITHERS SEE US.iT WID FRAE MONY A BLUNDER FREE US,AND FOOLISH NOTION.

Monti
1 year ago

PISH

Monti
1 year ago

Prawn sandwich munchers about here? Fuck that pish!
If some don’t want to sing republican/rebel songs, then fine, dinnae fucking sing them then…..but some of us dae & thousands of us fucking wull!

Brits out!

FTQ

rondo52
1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

plonker

Munti
1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

The usual mature and balanced contribution from the site’s resident amoeba heid. A man (?) completely unaware, despite repeated reminders, of his own sheer thickness.

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  Munti

Well said, round of applause to you sir…..

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

Trying to turn Celtic into benign club devoid of history and context. No way! He and some others miss what makes this club like no other. In fact he’s like it to be like benign others. Just a football club – no way! We are so Much more than that and this guy writing will never can never understand it

Monti
1 year ago

Celtic is a cause, interwoven with both Catholic & Irish lineage, the club is a rebel club & will be carried forward by those philosophies, in the stands & in the bars.
The findlays’s & Farquhar’s who follow Celtic tut tutting at fans like the Green Brigade are in need of a swift volley to the balls.
They are the same cunts who will be wanting us to ‘ move away ‘ from our ‘ Irishness ‘ or our ‘ Catholicness ‘, whilst eating their prawn sandwiches & sipping a Sherry…get tae fuck!

I am proud to be a Catholic, proud of our Irish lineage and i always will be, the rebel songs & camaraderie among Celtic fans is fantastic, the passion that is there for our club.

I do not dislike Protestants, i do not teach my kids of hatred or intolerance.

My message to our support would be to fucking enjoy yourselves Bhoys & Ghirls, sing our songs Celtic & Rebel songs & sing them fucking louder than before, stick two fingers up to the authorities & turn it up.
The Police, the SFA & many supporters of clubs throughout this bigoted fuckwitted country hate you….so fuck them back.

God bless the Pope
Fuck the SFA!

P.S. Yes i’m bitter but they made me that fucking way!

Yeah, I know nothing about the Club’s history, it’s Irish heritage and what it’s like to be called a Fenian bastard.

Here are a few clues.

My first name is Sean.

My paternal grandfather is from Cavan. His father, John, was killed in action in Dublin in 1916.

My maternal great-great-grandfather is from Down. When he brought his family to Scotland in the mid-19th century, he had to change his surname in order to get a job in the Ayrshire coalmines in order to feed his starving family. His sons, (Charles, Patrick and Anthony), had their first names changed to Robert, John and Andrew.

Don’t tell me I don’t know about the Irish people’s struggles at home and in Scotland.

I support a united Ireland; just as I support an independent Scotland.

It’s a bit off-topic but the people in the world I understand least are that strange group of Celtic fans who are republicans and want a united Ireland but through some tribal loyalty to the rotten-to-the-core Scottish Labour Party, want to deny Scotland it’s escape from the British state, and don’t realsie that in concert with the Tories, Scottish Labour use the politics of Ulster to divide the Scottish people and keep us distracted by talk of Fenians and Proddies. I thought only the Sevconians were dumb enough to take that on board.

It was, perhaps, a bit sneaky to hold that bit back from my intial article but I knew there would be some tossers who would come up with – he doesn’t understand us and our struggle.

Mike
1 year ago

Then WTF are you doing at Kilmarnock? Kilmarnock FFS. BTW. your no dwarf, is your second name South? and do you hail hail from Garryowen?
😉

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike

Exactly Mike – oh I’m Irish as Irish as you BUT ….

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  BroxburnBhoy

BB,
Mike is more Roman…..going by the size of his nose.

Mike
1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

Hail Hail Cesar.

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago

???? Don’t you know I’m a Tory Bastard – Tic Toc tell this guy

TicToc
1 year ago
Reply to  BroxburnBhoy

BB, I’ll drop the “bastard” bit and just call you a tory, as they’re ALL “bastards” anyway! 🙂
HH

TicToc
1 year ago
Reply to  TicToc

A PS BB, (I hit the send button too soon).
I’ve generally, actually ‘liked’ you over the years and respect most of your comments. Some of your recent comments have had me thinking again too, in a very positive view of your good self.
End of day it’s better to respect each other than to discharge too much emotion and generally shit follows soon after. Anyway, I’ve certainly no hard feelings re yourself and generally enjoy and admire your articulate posts.
HH

Sery
1 year ago

Broxburn bhoy and Monti why don’t your piss off and join a republican band, as a Celtic supporter I don’t want you near my team both of you are embarising yourself and the club

1 year ago
Reply to  Sery

SERY… your premise is assinine, your spelling is embarrassing

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  Sery

Sery,
PMSL sandwich sir?

Fuckwit!

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  Sery

Sery you have no idea about Celtic clearly so you piss off from our club go support Man Utd or some similar benign international brand club

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  BroxburnBhoy

🙂

Philly
1 year ago

Well done Ralph for posting this article. To the Kilmarnock supporter I hope your nephew hasn’t been put off. Some of the clowns going to the games these days shouldn’t be allowed out the house never mind in to a football stadium but I think that’s more of a social problem than a sectarian one. I would take issue with the Boyd incident though. He’s been writing and telling blatant lies about our club all season and quite frankly he’s lucky it was only a twenty pence piece on the elbow and not a brick off his head. I’m not condoning this behaviour but I fully understand why it could happen.

Alan
1 year ago

The only comment I have on this is Imagine if this piece was offered to one of the big rangers sites. A piece written by an outsider, criticising their support. Does anyone think they would publish it? Whether it’s right or wrong? They would in their fuck. It’s good we can even have this conversation.

Reply to  Alan

That is 100% correct.

Devoy45
1 year ago

Every week, 50,000 Rangers supporters sing a vile sectarian and racist song and have been doing so for many years but nothing is said or done. Kris Boyd never spoke out against that, nor did Stevie Clarke. Nor do Rangers. Hypocrisy.
However the Killie supporter is totally right and Celtic supporters should be shamed by what he has said.I apologise to him and his nephew, even if my club doesn’t. Guys pissing in other peoples’ front garden isn’t what Father Walfrid had in mind.
Likewise, at Celtic matches I only sing football songs. Not every Irish Catholic supported/supports the IRA.
I don’t like terms like “DOB” because the Irish tricolour has an orange stripe for a reason, with a white stripe for peace between green and orange.
Many proud Protestants fought for Irish freedom.
However, I am also proud to called a Fenian.
Our fans should always do our club and history proud. We should behave better than our rivals.

Stevie D
1 year ago
Reply to  Devoy45

There’s good reason neither Boyd nor “rangers” have ever spoken out about the singing of this delightful wee ditty by their support. It’s because the same is regularly belted out in their team dressing room. Celtic, it could be argued, have a problem with elements of the support; but “rangers” IS the problem. Bigotry, sectarianism and intolerance is their raison d’etre.

TicToc
1 year ago
Reply to  Stevie D

I couldn’t agree more, Stevie D. Rightly or wrongly, I believe that Peter Lawwell had the chance to end that scum for good (in every way) but allowed himself to be drawn to his own ‘bigger picture’, MONEY, as bean-counters tend to do.
The blight on Scottish life and society could have been mortally wounded but the arsehole Lawwell would’nt press the ‘trigger’. It’s just another of the many reasons I despise him. No more a Celtic supporter than The Lying King.
HH

Tenaka Khan
1 year ago

In 1888 there was no IRA and in 2019 there is no IRA, but in both years there is Celtic FC.

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  Tenaka Khan

Do you know what was happening in Ireland on both dates ? Don’t be daft

1 year ago
Reply to  Tenaka Khan

Tenko kan… There may have been no IRA IN 1888 indeed before that date, but there was still armed resistance in many guises against british involvement in Ireland which morphed into the the Irish Republican Brotherhood thence the Irish Republican Army et al…
… If you know your history… And ours is complex
Beidh ar la linn

Weered
1 year ago
Reply to  Weered

It is relevant to that set of supporters who espouse such feelings.

Don’t forget that the real animosity towards the british started with the “Plantation” then the Famine years.
Those who went to Scotland to escape the aftermath of the famine took their hatreds with them and rightly so. They could not move on from that

Those famine events were well within their living memory.
SO don’t try to tell me it is not relevant to the “Celtic Fc Family”… It is and will always be

Gerrymac
1 year ago

OTSoG-a well written and thought out piece, much nay all of which I agree with, and I don’t like prawn sandwiches or succulent lamb for that matter.
Great article on the celts are here website called ‘The dark ages” if you want to know your history.
Thanks for your article and to Ralph for posting it

Steve Naive
1 year ago

Some good points all over here today. Away games are often a problem. I recall Dundee a couple of years back at Christmas, same narrative. A different one for a nil- nil or reversal at Killie !

The Cha
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Naive

Is that the one where 4 people were arrested, 1 a Dundee fan and I believe all charges were dropped.

The Dundee Riot, with accompanying pictures of fans sitting quietly, drinking bovril etc, talking, reading etc.

My god, the inhumanity!

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  The Cha

Lol Cha – see a pattern emerging

Stevie D
1 year ago

There’s good reason neither Boyd nor “rangers” have ever spoken out about the singing of this delightful wee ditty by their support. It’s because the same is regularly belted out in their team dressing room. Celtic, it could be argued, have a problem with elements of the support; but “rangers” IS the problem. Bigotry, sectarianism and intolerance is their raison d’etre.

Stevie D
1 year ago

So relevant I said it twice.

Jack the rack
1 year ago

Not bad.

Certainly thought provoking.

Decent departure from standard online fare.

IMHO, any Celtic fan who measures themselves against Sevco supporters (outlook, conduct) is aiming far too low.

Monti
1 year ago

UNTIL THE LAST REBEL!

FTQ

Monti
1 year ago

OTSOG,
Did you & your nephew enjoy Broonies goal?

Gutted were you?

flinker
1 year ago

Mr pish PROVES he,s a moron.

1 year ago
Reply to  flinker

Flinker.. Moronic status is in the eye of the beholder… It takes one to know one. I have yet to come across any true morons since joining ETims merry and not so merry band 🙂

Is it not true that the bad behaviour of the few always reflects negatively on the many. The perceived sectarian nature of Scottish football stems from historical and, sadly, current sectarian facts and practices. 🙁

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  flinker

flinker,
Harsh that……:)

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  flinker

Pull your flinker out mate

Mike
1 year ago

It wisnae us Gov. it was those fat orange bastards, that feasted on those hallucinogenic Kilmarnock pies, you know Clubfoot and Pie-man.
Living in La-La-Land, its the Pope that kills them..

1 year ago
Reply to  Mike

Mike… Good morning sir. How’s the sheep?

Mike
1 year ago
Reply to  Weered

Good morning to you, young man, smelly and woolly, but braw aefe braw.
and thriving in these temperate times. Hope you and yours are good and enjoying the best of health.
He is a pie-man for the Killie,
and he dives a long way,
searching for a place on the bench,
hoping to get inside the knickers,
of a Killie wench…

Monti
1 year ago

Weered/Mike,

Morning ya couple o fannies 😉

1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

Monti… I’m grand… Asshole

Monti
1 year ago
Reply to  Weered

I hear it is grande 🙂

1 year ago
Reply to  Monti

And big

Cesar
1 year ago

Hail Hail King Billy’s in jail, what the hell do we care now, furrits a grand ole team to play for, its a grand ole team to see and if you know its historeee

1 year ago
Reply to  Cesar

It seems that Mike has delusions of grandeur. Don’t turn yer back on Brutus et al

Cesar
1 year ago
Reply to  Weered

Not at all Weered, I just want the name of one of the greatest ever Celts, to be read out and remembered. “Et Tu Brute” we shall never ever forget our greatest ever Capitano. 😉

Monti
1 year ago

Blessed are those who hunger for justice!

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago

So Charlie you think that the Irish context was simply missing? You think hungry Irish immigrants didn’t understand the reason for their poverty and hunger? That they were indifferent to being occupied by a foreign power? That they might need a focal point to rally around and let the full Irish context flourish without it being written down ( treason at the time perhaps ). This is as Daily Record as the Kilmarnock guy’s Article. It’s shows a deep misunderstanding of the context of the the club and it’s supporters throughout the years. Best stay of Wikipedia you won’t get the full depth of the facts and their context there. Celtic actually did have many context and from prominent Irish Nationalists so let’s try to avoid brushing it away to try and make us Man Utd. Of course peace has been Agreed and I’m happy for that and it design mean it wasn’t hard won or that it is irrelevant to the Irish diaspora.

BroxburnBhoy
1 year ago
Reply to  BroxburnBhoy

You must have been there then to State so boldly “ their personal political beliefs were irrelevant! How arrogant an assumption that is – just like the daily record isn’t it. You are wrong and your attempt to divorce Celtic from a deep association with Ireland and the context of that country is disingenuous just like articles in the Daily record. If you’d rather not be upset by having posts read like the record or Tom English then stop trying to make assert there is no Irish context for Celtic. You might dislike it and it it there. Good day to you sir!

Salad Queen
1 year ago

Just back from Spain and catching up with emails etc.
I watched the match in a hotel in Dunkeld during the first half I was the only customer in the bar and heard the banned billy boys song 3 times.
Could the writer explain this in any kind of detail?

Reply to  Salad Queen

Hello, Hello, We are the KILLIE boys

And up to our knees in Ayr blood (not Fenian blood)

It’s not my favourite choice of song ever but it’s not sung as a sectarian song at Kilmarnock.

Happy to help.

Salad Queen
1 year ago

Good explanation still a banned song.

Reply to  Salad Queen

The song is banned. Not the tune.

Cesar
1 year ago

If it sounds Hunnish, then it is Hunnish, if you take the original lyrics out of the song, all that remains is the tune, once the tune gets inside your brain its very hard to shift, the sound of the tune still reflects the original words. You can play the Sash without the lyrics but when you hear the tune being played, you still get the message..
All it means is that the Huns from Kilmarnock are too thick to come-up with their own bigoted songs.

“Up to our knees in Ayr blood” gies piece.

Reply to  Cesar

Cesar,

I agree with almost all of that. As I said before, it’s not my favourite part of the ‘songbook’.

However, Killie fans (ie. your ‘Huns from Kilmarnock’) don’t need to come up with our own bigoted songs because we don’t sing bigoted songs. Regardless of how ‘thick’ we might be…

You mad about ETims or just plain mad? Why not buy the t-shirt at http://etims.spreadshirt.co.uk/