Menu Close

On the Increasing Frequency of Champions League Humpings

Wellgreen looks at the high score drubbings in the champions League, and actually manages to make us feel a little better..
In football terms it is quite difficult to actually define what constitutes a humping (other writers on different kinds of website will have to explore any other possible meanings of the term).

We’ve all seen games in which one side has been totally dominant for the entire match but only get a 1-0 or a draw – control of the play doesn’t always necessarily translate into goals.

I’ve even heard it said “we humped them 0-1”.
However, in the last few years it seemed to me that in the Champions League there has been many more matches finishing with one team on the bad end of a big score, your actual, definite, no-shadow-of-a-doubt, humping (for non-Scottish readers you may substitute “humping” with “thrashing” and all this will make more sense).
Eager to see if this was just a mistaken impression or if it was real, I spent a fair amount of time trawling through results from the Champions League over the last 25 years.

You can see all the results at this link.
I put what I found into a couple of graphs. The first shows how many victories were by 4 clear goals in each season since the beginning of the Champions League, but only in the group stages.

I excluded the qualifying matches, as it is much more likely you get mismatches with teams from Andorra and so on in those.
 Whatever way you want to look at it, heavy defeats are going up.

There are a number of possible reasons for this and I don’t know which one is correct, but I’d like to run through a few of them.
Firstly, if I left you with just this graph, you might be tempted to think it is the money factor. The story goes that the big teams that play in the smaller leagues like Celtic, Ajax, Anderlecht and so on just can’t compete.
This is definitely true up to a point. We all know we can’t attract the biggest players to come and play in Scotland or in the Dutch league, and even if a player might be attracted by the history of clubs like ourselves, we could only pay them probably less than a third of what they would get somewhere else, so they are never going to come.

Another factor could simply be Messi and Ronaldo. Between them those two have dished out 4 goal humpings to teams almost single-handedly, and on a regular basis.
However, as I said, the first graph above only shows the group stages. If I include the knockout stages and go all the way up to the final, something interesting happens…or rather doesn’t happen.
You would expect that there wouldn’t be many more heavy results in the knockout part of the tournament as all the weaker teams have been eliminated and we are left with strong, reasonably well-matched teams.
But that isn’t really the case. You can see in the graph below, which takes in from the group stages up to the final, the numbers increase a little, but the ratio is still more or less the same.

That would mean that heavy defeats between the biggest and better teams are also increasing, like when PSG beat Barcelona 4-0 last year, and the Barcelona responded by beating PSG 6-1 in the return (or if you want to look at other tournaments, the 7-0 in the semi-final of the World cup last time round, Man City beating Liverpool 5-0 this year in the P*****r L****e©, and then losing heavily to them the other night).
This makes me think that it is possible that as well as the money gap, there is something in the modern game that is making it more likely that this kind of result comes up.
To repeat, I do not have the answers here, though I do have some suggestions.

It could be the case that the speed at which the game is played nowadays doesn’t allow teams to settle so once you have them rattled you can keep punishing them before they have time to sort it out.

It’s possible that tactical sophistication has reached a level at which, if a team or even a couple of players on that team are getting it wrong, the opposition will be on it so quickly that you are 3-0 down before you know it.

A final idea that I don’t really buy, but you hear often from older supporters, is that players these days are spoiled and don’t have any fight, therefore once they start losing they don’t have the heart to fight themselves back into the game.

Whatever the reason may be, for Celtic fans, it doesn’t make it any more fun to suffer through these defeats. However, it does put it in a better light when you see that this year there have been 15 such results and the tournament isn’t finished yet. We were on the end of two of them. So were Arsenal last year. So were Borussia Mönchengladbach last year. Legia Warsaw got horsed THREE times last year. PSG and Barcelona both got horsed in one game last year, it’s also happened to Bayern, and others.
It isn’t just us. 

 

0 0 votes
Article Rating
33 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
BroxburnBhoy
5 years ago

I think with the excellent players some clubs have one or two errors can lead to a drubbing in terms of goals. To me it immaterial if you get gubbed 6-0 or 1-0 you get no points and the other team gets 3 as usual. Emotionally folks can get spun up about losing more than 3 goals and some have an attitude that our team should never give up 6 goals. Life has changed and football has changed and it will happen every now and then especially if we take on the best in Europe. As you point out Ralph happens to other teams too. Gone are the days of God given wins and plucky 1-0 or 2-0 defeats. Different world

Monti
5 years ago

There’s a way to lose & it isn’t getting fucked by six or seven away & five goals at home, yes sure if the PSG, Barcelona & Real Madrid’s go for it at the top of their game, then you will face a heavy defeat.
What can we do as a team to combat this? auite a fucking lot if you ask me, tactics, set up, recruitment and for fuck sake a bit of fucking pride in your own & team performance.
We wnt into the qualifiers with Bitton & Ajer at the back, two central midfielders playing out of position in our biggest games of the season…fucking chaotic & not good enough.
Shape of the side, discipline are vital in terms of keeping things tight, especially away from home, we give the ball away too easily, weak in defence and not compact enough.
I think the defence is needing major surgery, only Tierney get’s pass marks for me, Ajer has come on to a game but i’m still not truly convinced he is a defender, the jury is still out, look how easily the Hamilton player got in for their equaliser on Sunday.
Celtic need to invest in key areas, stop fucking about trying to buy land for fanzones or fucking hotels…nurse.
Concentrate on the fucking team and get serious, not reckless about the CL, we are told time and again by Peter Lawwell that we ” aim to be world class in everything we do “, well start buying fucking players who can push the team & the club on then, prove it Peter, go on fucking prove it!
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE TEAM!

Compliance officer got back to you yet Peter?
No? Fuck it never mind.

Rob O'Keeffe
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Correct Monti,who cares if it isn’t just us? We only care about us….

Devoy45
5 years ago

Good stuff. Thanks.

5 years ago

Spot on Monti. If you go into games against clubs with great players and you include the likes of Boyata in your line-up you are beaten before a ball is kicked. His team mates know he is not good enough to play in the CL and are expecting a lack of concentration and silly mistakes. When you have not attempted to make yourself any stronger during the transfer window you deserve all you get. It is not about shelling out 20 million quid for a player but making yourself as strong as you can be. Playing a makeshift defence and persisting, domestically and in Europe, with players who are not good enough is madness that will be punished. I am not looking forward to the transfer window again during the summer as I think we are going to be fed the same old pony. And this will be three years running. I am willing to bet that few clubs that are similar to us will be persisting with error prone players or guys that are clearly finished. It is not the PSGs and Barcas that we compare ourselves to . Have a look at the Astanas and Borisovs and see what they spend and how they are attempting to strengthen to see how difficult it will be. Failure to qualify is a disaster.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  john

John,
Agreed!
The transfer window is something to be avoided now i think, constantly waiting for a few key quality signings, then all we get is 32 year old crocks.
I shake my head every time i see Boyata take to the field, it’s just nonsense.

BroxburnBhoy
5 years ago

I’m sorry Monti and John without sustaIned enormous financial resources we simply will not have the players who are capable of making a mark on the Champions League. Whether we are
Plucky and play for the jersey or not without top class football
Players we will be unable to do much except qualify and get the occasional win and draw. We may have a better chance to make later stages in the Europa League and even that is getting difficult these days as it’s now a place where Champions League third place teams can thrive. We can vent and demand all we want and then some more and call to replace the defensive players we have and so on. As for the investigation – patience is really a virtue. I think we will hear more about that coming up very soon.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  BroxburnBhoy

Broxburnbhoy,
I’m not talking about going into serious debt t chase Europe, i just want to see natural players in natural positions, surely that’s not being unrealistic?

Broxburnbhoy
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Monti it is realistic – no disagreement from me there.

Mike
5 years ago
Reply to  Broxburnbhoy

Natural players in natural positions, haw haw haw, wtf does that even mean. Goalies playing away from hame, like McGregor.
or, centre-halve playing striker, whataloadamince fc.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

You wouldn’t ken what that means ya dozy auld hoor…ken 😉

Mike
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Do you like “natural” positions Monti, what “position” is your favourite? are you a “natural” player Monti? where do you like to “play”
😉

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Mike,
I prefer to play at the back, keep things tight and keep things moving.
Timing is everything and you must lift the pace at critical moments.

Mike
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

I prefer to play up front, strike when the irons hot, stroke it, take my time and then sshhhooooottt.

Doc
5 years ago

This year we conceded more than any other team, last year only Legia conceded more, what other teams regard as freak results are becoming the norm for us.

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago

Comes down to quality.
Or the lack of it as is the case with our defence.
Lustig is average at that level.
Boyata Simunovic Ajer Hendry are not CL Level atm.
Tierney can cut it but if he gets crocked then what?
We need a clear out and as Monti suggest serious surgery at the back.
Time they started spending for the Champions League and stopped taking the piss out of the Suppprt.
We should be spending upwards of £5m for defenders not buttons on “Potential”.
Potential won’t cut it against the best.
We need players who have reached their potential and who fancy a challenge under the lights on a big night.

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago

Post gone walk about…

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

You mean clip clop clip clop about…..

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Amazing bantz

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Neigh worries

Mike
5 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Do you like to make a “pass” Charlie, do you wear a kilt when you “pass” are you a full time “passer” Charlie, do you like Charlie, Charlie? please share!!

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Pass me the ba shouted oor Scott Broon
But the player couldny dae it cause his heid wiz always doon
Pass me the ba’ shouted Trevor on the wing
But the player couldny dae it cause he couldny control the hing
Pass him the ba’ shouted Brendan fae the side
But the player couldny time it and the pass wiz 6 yards wide
Pass it fuckin furrit was the cry from oot the stand
But the ba went fuckin backwirdz just like Celtic planned
Now we head for 7 ain’t life fuckin grand?

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Could you pass the ba Charlie?
Was the question Mikey asked
Of course a fuckin could for it is a simple task
It’s just a matter of timing and a minimal amount of skill
You can practice was yer pal or dae a simple drill
Kick it aff a wa’ and trap the ole rebound
Keep dae in this fur ages and a new skill will be found
We did it when we were weans it seemed the obvious thing to do
And those who didn’t dae it well they didny huv a clue
It sharpened up yer timing and it helped with weight of pass
Noo I’ve telt ye how tae dae it nae mer silly questions kiss ma ass

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Couldn’t pass water ya toomshy heed, i’d keep the ball off ye in a telephone box.
Mind you it might have to be the fucking Tardis.

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Many a plumb thought th same.
Amazing how many of them were seen picking the baw oot the net shortly after 😉

jimmybee
5 years ago

Its not the defeats to the likes of psg barca etc that have concerned me. Its Anderlecht,Zenit,it was in Israel and others where we capitulate.
Thats the worry and shows the lack of genuine european class we have.The players at the club simply arent good enough at that level.

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago

We don’t capitulate as such we just get overrun by much better quality.
For us to even stand toe to toe with the quality sides we need our entire squad to turn up and play above themselves.
Fact of the matter is we don’t actually have any top class performers at Celtic and haven’t done for many a year.
These Types cost the millions we are unwilling to spend.
It’s that simple.
Celtic fans have been hoodwinked into thinking having zero debt is a badge of honour?
Well when you are getting skelped regularly because of it you may as well be wearing a Blue Peter badge of honour with your defence held together with double sided sticky tape.

Wake up and smell the Lavazza ffs.

Mike
5 years ago

And it is exactly the same for everyone of the poorer league teams, once again who is competing in the C.L. quarters and the semi finals, it is the richest teams. The days are past when Ajax, Anderlecht, Celtic, will reach the final stages of European competitions, unless the club spends a significant sum of money. That will not happen, should it happen? we could spend sum £30 mill. and be a very lot more competitive and possibly reach the quarter finals. Times have changed significantly even since WGS and the richer teams are earning a fortune compared to even then. Money talks and the more you have the better the players you can buy. I want the club to reach the C.L. qualifiers every season and pull away from the deed club, I want the club to go on and on becoming more successful domestically and see where it takes us. Nobody likes to see their team getting humped, but I am prepared to accept it, to keep the club on the European stage, one year we will improve enough to reach the quarters of the C.L. with a wee bit of luck, I canny wait. KTF.

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Spot on Mike.
We are in prime position to speculate a bit more.
Top Manager already in place
Ground full again in the big games
A side that only needs 3/4 quality signings to step up a level
Top dog on the domestic front and guaranteed a crack at Europe every year if we do invest.
Time to stop playing safe and push the boat out a bit.
Instead of paying £2/3m for reinforcements go up to the £5/6m level and get those better players.
What’s the worst that can happen?
We have to sell one ore two the next Summer to balance the book.
The financial rewards are higher than the outlay if you get it right.
The team will play better and the fans will generate more momentum as a result.
Look at the result of the MON era ON THE PARK
We were paying upwards of £5m a player back then to increase the quality.
Simples.

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

” Ground full again “?
Yes quite…..amazing what hapoens when a real manager is in place.
How are Valarenga doing btw?

Charlie Saiz
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

And when the Board speculate a bit more with signings.
Sinclair Dembele Roberts Ntcham

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Pish

Monti
5 years ago
Reply to  Monti

🙂

Follow us on Twitter @ETimsNet