Well it was what it was.
Class will out in the end and all that.
To be fair, class was out at the start of this one and we were looking in very dodgy territory after only 10 mins. The 3-0 victory for the hosts could have been a lot more and even though we had a few chances and found the woodwork, ultimately, we were handed a big fat reality check that the Paradise Windfall would find hard to outshine.
They say in Chess, you never get any better playing lesser players, the question is are we still holding Draught pieces compared to boys at the top tables.
Sounds harsh perhaps but it the cold light of day, its not the end of the world. Bayern have ambitions of winning or at least getting to the semi-finals of the competition, whereas Celtic hope to be in Europe after Xmas. The stories of Bayern in decline after a sluggish ( for them) start to the season meant nothing when the sides faced up and they duly showed their superiority, as expected. The goal for Celtric remains on track and we continue to hope the experiences against the modern football Elite stand players like Tierney, Ntcham and Boyata in good stead as this Celtic side moves forward.
And so to the Ratings:
———————————————————————————-
Gordon – 7
Did well I thought, including a great save towards the end that may have just saved the side slipping into full on feel-sorry-for-themselves mode before domestic duties call for a big effort on Saturday ( great scheduling btw!) and next Wednesday. Only grumble I had was the attempts to kick out high to Tierney repeatedly went short and narrow, Gordon clearly prefers sending same ball to Lustig on right hand side, so that’s something to work on for our keeper.
Tierney – 6
Not a great night and took until the second half to get into the game and play his own style. Encapsulated the Celtic teams predicament in first half when pictured angrily screaming “COME ON!” when trying to find a guy in space to give the ball too. Had a great run and a good shot in second half and continues to edge his way towards the future captaincy.
Boyata – 7
I thought he was our joint best outfield player despite the score-line. Cleared where he could and up against “Big Rab” for Bayern so a real football challenge and no mistake. Hopefully can keep fit and once again be our number 1 defender in same vein he finished last season.
Lustig – 6
Have to be honest, I don’t see Mikael as a Celtic Centre half and find that while he has effort and can occasionally place himself in right position, I just don’t feel comfortable with him outside his right back berth. Tried his best as always but I, and suspect so will he, hope to see Lustig back in usual position come return leg.
Gamboa – 4
Played like a reserve right back who isn’t relied upon. Who expected anything else other than a troubled night?. Chris Sutton was going tonto at the right back who saw wave after wave of Bayern attack fly passed him whilst I was just sat wondering “If I could see it coming, why couldn’t Brendan?”.
After throwing Ralston in against PSG and now Gamboa against Bayern, its time Rodgers at least considered a 3 at the back if he has no decent Right back AND centre pairing available. Hold on..doesn’t Tierney play right back for Scotland…shush..forget I even said that..do we even have a left back back-up?
Armstrong – 5
Was expecting to say ran about like a headless chicken but I’m not even sure he did that. Like a ghost most of the game, which amazingly seems better than some Celtic players who when they tried to get into the game, were found truly wanting. Got a foot in here and there and had a run or two but all came to nothing and questions continue to rise on what exactly has Callum McGregor done to see Armstrong get the nod on current form.
Ntcham – 5
On first half form this could have been a 4 along with Gamboa. Our ball playing-holding midfielder was a yard slow in both pace and mind for around 60 minutes. Brendan was screaming at him to press the midfielder on the ball just before Bayern first and then Ntcham resorted to a mad punt whilst having time on the ball that led to the second goal. Showed occasion composure and dig and will get benefit of the doubt but all those “Wow, what a purchase” claims at the start of the season are a distant memory and he needs to find some quality form, like a lot of the current squad in truth
Broony – 7
Its starting to worry me. Once again, in Europe, Broony was the only player in Hoops who knew what to do with the ball, especially in a torrid first half. He has vision and composure to pause, step, play where the ball needs to go. No big long dribbles, just pass the thing to another player. Easy to say yet so difficult under pressure. We could really be doing with another Broony next to him to help calm things down and keep the ball. I expect him to be a Mascherano centre half style player come seasons end given our fragile centre backs and that might actually be no bad thing, that’s if current midfielders can step up to fill such a massive void of course.
Roberts – 6
Had some decent breaks and tried to provide a threat on rare occasions we had the ball in first half. The mazy dribbles are good and the runs are impressive but the final heads up action still needs work. Its clear Paddy lifts the attacking value of the side but it comes with a cost to cover at the back and Brendan needs to find some sort of balance when trying to accommodate Armstrong, Sinclair and Roberts in a side which is trying to go toe-to-toe with some of the worlds best and is being found wanting defensively.
Sinclair – 5
Had a decent end to the game with a few shots and disallowed goal but all too little too late for me. I know I am a hard critic on Sinclair but it is only because I want him stepping up a lot more than he does. I have the confidence he can be that player and that presence. Behind Broony, he should be the star man, a player of prestige and experience. If he isn’t going to get attacks flowing then he needs to cover for his defender, currently he just seems to be lost somewhere between the two.
Griffiths – 5
Only scores 5 as couldn’t get into the game and wasn’t really his fault. The ball getting pumped high was no use and he had no channels to run into and no ball to feet. Up against some of the worlds best defenders and when the ball did come near, was soon knocked away to a player in red.
Subs
Rogic – 5
Had some nice wee dribbles and intelligent passes. Should be a starter come Saturday.
Forrest – 5
Great run and decent shot and again may have just reminded Brendan a winger who can cover back might be handy now and again in Europe.
Dembele – 4
Looked like he couldn’t really get into the game after coming on but had a touch or two to suggest that he’s getting there, if rather slowly. Hopefully he is ready for the return leg as physical status needed badly at this level
———————————————————————–
Manager – 4
“We won’t change our game plan despite Champions League beatings”
That was Brendan after Bayern last night.
‘I want us to go into the Champions League and impose our way of playing and our way of working.’
That was Brendan after the PSG mauling in Paradise.
“We know it’s going to be a tough game and we’ll go there and play how we’ve played before, with no fear and going to look to attack the game.
That was Brendan before a Man City 3-1 defeat for Liverpool at Etihad in 2014
Anyone see a pattern here?
It’s great having a football philosophy, but reality bites. Brendan must have known we had severe weaknesses playing Gamboa at right back which also weakened Lustigs contribution to the side by moving him inside. Saying it all helps with players experience is fine, BUT, and its a big BUT, what experience is Brendan benefitting from when he keeps repeating the same approach and getting the same results.
I know I know nothing but I also know:
- I don’t know why we didn’t play 3 at the back and at least 5 across the middle.
- I don’t know why we want to play a midfield full of attack attack attack players.
- I don’t know why we sacrifice our wiry striker against giants like Hummels.
- I don’t know what players are getting better at ball retention up against big sides as only Broony seems to be able to handle it at present.
I know its a wonderful achievement to get there and I know that PSG and Bayern are in the elite. I also know that doesn’t mean you play against them in the same manner you play against Dundee or Hamilton, especially away from home.
I don’t want to see us being overly defensive, I really don’t but WGS, Lenny and MON showed there are ways to stand up against the Elite when you adopt some pragmatism and Brendan has to allow reality into his plans. If your defensive players aren’t up to scratch, change the formation, or charge down the Boards door and demand the players you want rather than squad filler.
I’m beginning to think that there’s a strong streak of vanity in Rodgers that can be mistaken for positive thinking. He believes he has magical powers to transform his players into going toe to toe with the elite players of Europe. I’d prefer a more pragmatic approach when circumstances demand it. I though DesiMond was spot on with his comments.
See what i mean about the criticism of Brendan, underlying?
An unbeaten treble, two Champions league groups in a row, £50,000,000 + into the club.
Unbeaten this season so far domestically, 90 mins away from another cup final….
Yeah Brendan doesn’t know what he’s doing….
Fuck me gently
Well said….Honey.
Thank you darling x
look ya dick, gamboa is fucking mince, Tierney got torn a new arse all night by an OAP, Nchamp less said the better, armstrong was even worse. no game plan change mmmm, maybe his heed was somewhere else.
Oh dear
Wow. Criticism of the manager and his tactics. Excommunication for both of you. BR has got it all wrong in Europe from the planning stage to now. This year is worse than last and we have the Belgians to thank for saving our skin. They are is a complete mess from top to bottom and Rodgers will be able to sell it that qualification for the EL is us moving forward but the truth is nothing has been learned and we are going backwards. We have played 9 games under Br in the CL and in the five we lost I am sure we have shipped about 20 goals and scored none or one. Regardless of how you dress that up, it is pathetic.
I think that you and Iljas, above, are onto something. We’re turning up in Europe the same way Kilmarnock turn up at Parkhead and hoping it will all work out.
I don,t think that any shuffling of the pack or any system would have made the slightest difference,we were playing against a quality team with quality players in every position the bench included,they play in a competitive league where the opposition is very strong where they play the same way pass/move we don,t,do you expect us to come from the hurly burly of the SPL and then turn it on on the much bigger/better stage get a grip lhads.These ghuys very rarely give the ball away they play 1/2 touch and move football and are very comfortable/confidant whilst doing so,we can,t well not against such superior teams when you are pressured as you surely will be then your lack of quality shines through,as for Gamboa ffs give the bhoy a break he was up against a Usain Bolt of a player who also was very skilfull he had no protection at all our full backs get exposed on the flanks even in the SPL,he at least didn,t hide and stuck to his task,we most certainly need at least 2/3 better technical players this has to be addressed inmo.
John Y,
Good post
If different systems don’t make a difference then teams like Iceland would be nowhere near the WC or EC.
Good defenders can combat even the fastest players, Lustig has done it against Ronaldo.
Gamboa ffs give the bhoy a break he was up against a Usain Bolt of a player
he was pish against dundee and every other team I have had the misfortune of watching him making an arse of himself against.
just saying like. And this can be improved without spending gazillions
PS. wasnt he supposed to be quick?
He is, something none of your teachers labelled you!
John is right here. And has been all along just a bit nihilistic. The levels of money involved is the critical factor, but have we come as far as we can and that’s it? Is this what we have to look forward to for years to come? Domestic bliss and rude awakenings when we venture abroad?
I salute brendan rodgers for his input to celtic, he isone of the best and we need him more than he needs us, but he needs cash to spend. I agree with Charlie Nicholas that we need some marquee signings on high wages. We need to invest in the club to move forward
Need a Goalie and another midfielder or two to replace Ntcham and Brown.Browns not got the legs anymore.Been a great servant But…..
Mabozza,
With all due respect, are you taking the piss?
Replace Brown and Ntcham, our most influential midfielder and excellent new signing?
All because we lost to Bayern Munich?
Jesus H Christ.
Desimond,
Agree with most of this but i’ll raise a couple of wee things.
You missed out Craig Gordon’s shocking pass to Brown that led to the third goal, Gordon is guilty of this stuff on a regular basis, sure he made some great saves but i think it’s about time we signed a younger keeper who is comfortable with his distribution from hands and feet.
Secondly in terms of the line up last night, Brendan clearly went with the quicker Gamboa against Coman, how do you think Lustig would fare in a race with Coman?
Lustig is definetely better at RB but he’s an experienced international defender, should be able to cope.
Questioning Brendan’s tactics is a bit churlish, especially using an example of a defeat to Man City.
It shouldn’t be forgotten that Brendan’s tactics at Liverpool got them to a Steven Gerrard slip from the title!
HH
Got to say I’m with Desimond on this one. Whilst we all love to see Celtic if full flow it is naive to think the Bayerns of this world will even allow us the ball to begin with. I admit to being surprised by Brendan’s approach. It was his downfall at Liverpool where he refused to be pragmatic away from home and it was there the title was lost as opposed to the Gerrard slip. Contrast with Mourhino who got his point at Anfield last week and 3 points in Lisbon last night by setting up as appropriate away from home. We clearly don’t have the quality to go head to head with the top Europeans but we fans want us to set up to at least make a fist of it.
On a side note, is there only me disappointed that Sinclair never seems to step up in the big matches? Recent contrasts with Thompson re getting picked for England whilst playing in Scotland. Thommo was always up for the big games and was frequently a standout performer in Europe. Sadly Scott has yet to show this
Coman might not have got a run or the ball if Lustig and adequate protection was on offer.
If you can type the words about the slip and not see the truth your actually underpinning then thats fine
I love what Brendan has done but that doesnt mean i cant say the Emperor is bollock naked when i feel it so. I could have put up 2 quotes about “Playing our way in Europe against the best”..one from Brendan..one from Ronnie..both as aspirational and both deluded in current times
Whose way should we play in Europe? The bottom line here is whatever way we play with the players we have – all very good players, we have very little chance of beating Bayern and PSG. They are simply in another financial world and able to buy the world class best on offer. Maybe we be happier getting beat 1 or 2 nothing with 11 men all in the final third of our half? I think our players do need to give a better account of themselves. They are better than what they showed against PSG and Bayern and they are better playing a style they are used to. They do need to work harder in closing down against these class filled sides. The two games against Man City showed you can play your game and get a result. IF the players play to their potential.
” not see the truth “?
Lol go on then, educate us
You cite Gerrards slip…where was defence exactly when the midfielder lost the ball?
I also remember a certain game against Crystal palace
Having a team that can play various formations and approaches is preferable to having a format that needs to take various players.
Top players have to be adaptable as they have to cope with different systems home, away and international.
Hmmmm …you seem to want to ignore the fact that Brendan was closer to winning the English title, than any other Liverpool manager over a twenty plus year period, using the very tactics you are questioning.
So you think Coman might not have got a run if Lustig was at RB? Aye ok then Desi.
My point was in the very real scenario Cman was in a race with Lustig, he wouldn’t get near him, Bayern would have manipulated this scenario.
Not saying Brendan is beyond criticism, Desi……..but he is more knowledgeable about the game than you or I.
Definetely you 🙂
So Brendan’s plan B is to make plan A work?
Monti, we have a goalie that makes top class saves, and you want to bin him to have a guy that can play an accurate long ball.
As for Lustig, he can cope with pace, he has done it for Sweden against Portugal. He had such a good game against Ronaldo that Ronaldo went into another roid rage and planted the head on him.
Who said anything about long balls?
Distribution covers many things, overarm, underarm, short balls, quick balls, but most important of all, accurate.
I prefer a goalie that makes saves.
Doc,
It is possible to make saves and distribute the ball well.
If a goalie is that good at passing then he should be at centre midfield, relying on a goalie being able to pass like Pirlo is playing with fire.
You want the centre halfs and goalie to be spraying passes about but then you slaughter them when they make mistakes as every one does eg Ambrose, Boyata and now its Gordons turn.
Van Dijk had some stray passes and look at the money that’s being touted for him. Mistakes happen in football, the closer to your goal the more damage is done, deliberately playing close to your goal is dangerous.
Doc,
So you think that if a goalkeeper has good passing ability, this would mean you would play him outfield?
Who would you put in goal then?
As for my criticism of Ambrose, lol, Boyata i think is a 4/5 out of 10 defender, just my opinion mind.
Gordon? You explain that pass to Brown last night, are your eyes wide shut, Doc?
That’s my point, you want a top keeper, rather than a jack of all trades type.
I didn’t see the game so I didn’t see the pass to Brown. On the radio they said others made defensive mistakes which led to it, they spoke highly of Boyata, said he shut Lewandowski out the game and PSG and ourselves are the only teams he hasn’t scored against this season.
Boyata didn’t shut Lewandowski out the game.
When it comes to clearances Gordon is a pure liability. Third goal came from his ‘lackadaisical’ pass.
Did Arsenal no concede 10 last year against Bayern. We could have got seriously humped yesterday, as ah says its a sad reflection when 3-0 seems no bad but the disparity in what clubs can pay these days is only cause a greater gulf. AByern will probably get at least semis, if no the final…that’s the reality.
Re comment Rodgers is ‘vain’ well as disagree, ah think he is all things considering rather humble, howver to be a manager at his level you have to ( ah imagine ) have complete confidence in yerself…and those around you.
Anyhoo…MON THE HOOPS against hibees. Think its gonny e a close gemm.
I thought Ntcham was the guy who would take us further in Europe? Personally, I think he has been very poor in over half the games he has played for Celtic, not just in Europe, but in the SPL. With every passing game you can see his career being downgraded. He has all the attributes to make a living at Ipswich or Preston but he is way out of his league. Neither has the skill or the commitment. Just think Wanyama made his name in the Barca game, with the effort he made, his commitment to the cause and the standard of his play. And he was younger than Ntcham. To make it at the top level Ntcham should be showing similar attributes now but he does not have it.
John,
How many trains have you spotted today?
Well, Skelp ma erse with a slipper.
A blind man can see that we are lacking at the back the right-back but especially in the centre of defence, if I offer any criticism of Brendan is…that should have been sorted in the summer.
You could tell that Broony was still restricted with his movement, (the knock in the first minute by Moller did him no favours) as for Ntcham and Armstrong, I felt that they were not strong enough and a lot of the game passed them by.
Fitba. has always been about two halves and it sounds daft but if in the first half a team played poor, then they always seem to improve in the second half, it was the same last night.
The positive for me was the substitutions both our shape and performance improved with the introduction of Dembelle, Rogic and Forrest, we have missed Dembelle up front big time.
Please remember the two seasons B.B. (before Brendan) and the quality of the Bayern team, a powerhouse of European fitba. and the amount of games that we have to play, bare in mind the improvements over the Whole season also remember the HUGE gulf in club incomes between Celtic and most of the other C.L. teams. (J.J.) Jinky!!
broonie was also carrying an injury.
and he looked like he was, he should have been taken of with Armstrong or…before, he looked pained.
he shouldnt have started…
Ajer is he a centre half or not
Whats the story
Im confused,allthe comments and he,s rarely mentioned
Flinker,
He is a midfielder who will be turned into a defender by the board.
Fuck Bayern , the more important games are coming up fast – For me Dembele has to start on Saturday with Griff coming off the bench, hopefully Simunovich (or at least sviachenko)- is fit to play also as Hibs are going to be right up for it from the off ! We need to protect our undefeated record and treble
Their left winger was top drawer and a flying machine, felt sorry for Roberts, made good mazy runs looked up and no help, only 3 or 4 of their players sweeping towards him. Once again Cg,command your box and stop kicking the ball to guys holding bratwursts..
When our group was announced, how many expected Celtic to get results against PSG and Bayern? What I hoped for was competitive performances in those games. For me, that is the real disappointment not the losses. Now the real question is, despite the quality differences in players, are we giving ourselves the best chance of being competitive? The answer is somewhere in between two issues. Does the manager set the team up appropriately for these games? Do the players give the required effort?
There are mitigating factors as well. Last night’s team was not our strongest. We were playing one CB short, causing changes at the FB position. Hardly, the perfect preparation. Brown and Armstrong were coming back from injury. Our main out ball has been missing all season since Dembele is not back to form. I am beginning to wonder if he will get back to the form of last season for Celtic. Griffiths cannot play that role.
I believe all of these factors played a part in both the performance and the result last night. Some of them can be addressed, some cannot. However, I am convinced that we are improving as a team and as a club so there is no need for drastic change, nor criticism. What does need to change is some of our expectations in the immediate term.
Rebus
So the alternative to trying to play our own game is to park the bus and invite – yes invite Bayern and PSG to come onto us and rely on defensive grit. Hands up who thinks that will work and keep the score down to under 5 or 6? The gulf in the CL is between the established top two in nearly every group and the bottom two in nearly every group. If there were a competition of the two two sides playing against each other (that’s the knock out stage anyway) an the bottom two sides, then that would be very interesting. No need to drop to Europa simply have a cup for the bottom sides from each group in CL.
Im sure there are quite a few alternatives..such as:
Dembele starting?
Rogic up front
McGregors energy
Forrest covering
Retaining Bitton at centre half with a covering midfielder. For example why bother retaining Bitton in SPFL at centre half if its not a long term plan..surely it would be better therefore playing Ajer there ALL the time we need a centre half?
Again, no-one is screaming “Rodgers is pish” from the rafters but it doesn’t mean we cant ask “Is this the best we could have done?” every time we face a team which costs more or ask “What lessons are we actually learning here?”
Yes we can ask that and all managers have their foibles. My point is whatever team we put out will be very much up against it playing the Bayern and PSGs of the world. Of course if we play them 20 times we might win one and draw one like against Barcelona. Probably after they have enough points to go to the group stage anyway. The players we have and the formation we choose, unless they play at peak performance as a team on the night, will be very much up against it. Even if they all play their best they will still be up against it. There are lessons to be learned for sure and our players still look like they have stage fright first half hour of each game in the CL. The main lesson here is that unlimited cash buys world class talent and that is our reality in the CL. That may sound defeatist and yet all the evidence is in front of our eyes. I think a goal for us would be to qualify for the knock out stage and we really need the luck of the draw to avoid these world class talent filled teams like PSG, Bayern and Barcelona or at least have only one of them in our group
I know, and the whole point of being honest and critical is I hope Brendan is the same. His comments after the game were protective of his players but I reckon Owen Hargreaves called it spot on when he said he didn’t see any pressing play.
His decisions and selections confuse me at times but if Brendan feels the team is improving at the skills and approach needed at higher level then while I am yet to see it, I will support the intention whilst being critical of the implementation.
I feel a bigger truth shining brightly is our quality is a lot lower than many Celtic fans wish to admit and whilst we are getting through in domestic, the challenges there are going to start coming thick and thin.
Fair comment
It’s not “the best we can do” on the night, but does it lead into the best we can do after Xmas, or next year, or the year after?
Celtic are trying to build a team that knows how to play against good teams the same way we do against the guff in Scotland, but we can’t do that without risking a couple of skelpings along the way. Players will be better for it in the long run as will results in qualifiers as well as CL and EL.
A long time ago now I wrote a piece for the site called “brendanballs or Wattienaccio” or something where I thought about how Celtic should approach European games – be open, go toe to toe or close up shop
Its beyond doubt that Brendan isn’t going to go for the Wattienaccio approach, and for several reasons I think (for now) its the right approach:
1. Its his philosophy – he has made it his mission to play like this, to rip that up and start anew idea at this stage seems reactionary, especially when
2. The squad isn’t composed of big hard running athletes who close up space – we are built to try to play technical football, which with the resources we have available I think we do pretty well usually and anyway
3. As Brendan points out, we tend to lose more often than win at this level regardless of aproach, so even if we do deploy a more negative strategy is there any guarantee its going to work – results from ONeill to Lennon suggest more likely not, and
4. The gap between us and the haves at European level is getting wider all the time, and we are not alone among the “diddy” clubs at this level to get humped quite often
When it has worked, against Man City last year, Gladbach away, Anderlecht this season it has been thrilling to watch, much more enjoyable than a hang on for dear life Strachan performance (Benfica aside)
The trick will be – and to be honest its unlikely to ever come to fruition – is to be able to play how Brendan wants us to at this level on a regular basis. Stop the daft mistakes like Gordons terrible pass out for their third goal,be compact without the ball and offer a threat going forward
There were positives last night – Tierney and to a lesser extent Gamboa improved through the game, although Bayern cruised by then, Paddy did okay as an out ball at times, all 3 subs did quite well, especially Forrest
I agree with some other comments, I think Brown was limited by the early tackle from Muller, Ntcahm needs to speed up his game although he did show a few moments of good awareness of space around him, Lustig is too slow to be a great CB in there
So, I don’t know, I would persevere with our strategy, last night was our first away defeat in 4 CL games by the way, and review at the end of the campaign
HH
elcormaco,
Good stuff!
What I’ve taken from last night is that wee Jamsie and rogic have to start on Saturday.
They both looked good when they came on but I can’t help thinking by that stage Bayern had taken their foot of the gas or were tiring after running us into the ground in their very high tempo first half
I had to make do with radio Scotland last night, it sounded like an absolute hammering. They were debating whether Bayern had 12 or 15 goalscoring chances. As for the players, Brown was the only player they rated, Armstrong and Sinclair were anonymous, Ntcham was a headless chicken, Gamboa was an empty jersey, Forrest done more in 15 mins than Roberts did in 75 and they utterly slaughtered Lustig. Any of that accurate?
One thing that stuck was big Pat Bonnar talking about Brendan’s refusal to adapt (a bit of what Desi said), and compared it to the Ireland team he played with and how a group of less talented players can get results against the best teams like Holland and Italy.
Don’t think so about Roberts.Ran his ass off and you could see their players took him seriously.Meanwhile,Sinclair was being shouted at by KT to feckin remember he’s playing for Celtic and at least look interested.Dont think Armstrong wants to be at Parkhead.Gamboa was up against a world class player and had no chance.The team will struggle over the next two games,they are beginning to look tired and demoralised.What is happening with superstar Dembele? I’m scunnered so I am….
Spot on, Rob.
HH
Football being a game, largely, of strategy or tactics what matters is that you get these right for the game in front of you. Playing “the Celtic way” is not tactics against the elite. The Celtic way is lazy thinking and self delusion if you don’t have the players to execute it. BR talks up his players but the reality isis they are not good enough and may never be in Europe. Before the Bayern game BR knew about the quality of the opposition but he also knew Brown wasnt fully fit, Gamboa hadn’t played much, Lustig is much better in his usual position, Armstrong hasn’t been on fire for some time nor has Sinclair. Why not be cautious and play a counter attacking game in such circumstances.
Couldn’t agree more with Gordon and Boyata being top rated, those two saved us from a real thrashing
Hahahahaha
Wwwwwhhhaaaatttt?
Celtic in Scotia, Celtic in the C.L. two cheeks of the same arse, one is the team that remains unbeaten in 59 games and the other that gets its arse felt in the C.L.
Its all about the money, honey.
not so sure. Celtic have players like henderson who should clearly be playing every week at the highest level scotland supports. Time for us to have more than one team in the SPL.
Even though the rules don’t allow for that.
Oh dear
thats coz the rules are wank. why should celtic have players of this calibre sitting sctatching thier balls. go figure
I think we should just put our faith in our fantastic manager, instead of over thinking, over dissecting a defeat by Bayern Munich.
Celtic are playing teams like Hamilton, Ross County, Sevco and Dundee, then we have to play Bayern Munich and PSG?
We aren’t going to beat these sides, every now and again we will beat the top sides, that’s why we must cherish those moments.
We are punching above our weight in the CL,like i have consistently said, we are not good enough at the back in European football.
IMO when the entire defence is fit, if i’m being brutally honest, the only one i would keep is Tierney.
Gordon, Simunovic, Sviatchenko, Boyata, Gamboa – out.
If Peter Lawwell and DD are determined to help the manager to develop the team, back him with the required quality of signings, give him the tools to succeed.
HH
Lustig has been a great servant but this season should maybe be his last, i really like the guy, but you must be ruthless.
Lustig is the best right back in the country by far, he plays very well against top class players for his country and has done so for us in Europe. There’s no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Maybe Lustig’s problem is that he is too placid, he should say to Brendan that he isn’t comfortable playing centre back.
Doc,
Do you think Brendan & Lustig may have had a chat at Lennoxtown, where Mikael said to the manager he is happy to play at CB when needed? Naw?
I have no idea but it takes a big and brave guy to say ‘naw’ to the boss.
If Brendan phoned you tonight and said “Monti, I want you to at centre half on Saturday”, what would you say?
Would you be honest and say “Ajer, Tierney and Biton are more effective than I am at centre half” or would you go along with it and be so happy that you would invalidate the warranty on your xbox?
Be honest…
Doc,
I would certainly fill any missing gaps in the back line 🙂
But BR really rates most if not all of those players you mentioned. So Monti you’re saying: Trust the manager but not his team selection. Duh!
Fair point, but it was my opinion on the players in question, not Brendan’s.
Still fuming at mccleans commenatry i have started a petiton get this spread about heres the link thanks guys.
https://www.change.org/p/bt-sport-replace-rob-mcclean-commentating-on-celtic-games
maybe get him a gig in children’s hour. Rob McLeans telletubbie hur
I’ve just spent considerable time reading this post and then the comments. At the outset I was trying desperately to recover from last night’s game. Make sense of it even. I’m now in total fucking despair.
If this, apart from very occasional points, absolute PISH is indicative of our collective thoughts then I see no future hope in ETims, and that is really fucking sad.
“Out ball” for fuck’s sake……….get a fucking grip.
HH
Got to say that my comment excludes Monti, who perennially makes sense as he knows what he’s talking about.
An oasis in a really fucking arid place, a desert of thought.
HH
Aye defo a wise man
He wants the whole back 5 minus Tierney punted, replaced along with some other classy purchases.
He will be over the moon when explaining why his season book costs 1000 quid to accommodate Peters spending spree.
Desi, a wee bit of a knee-jerk reaction there. Monti didn’t say immediately and, in general, I agree with him. I still have a lot of time and respect for Mikel Lustig, and Kieran goes without saying. Erik and Simunovic I’ve already made clear why I feel they need to go. Boyata has more questions than answers although I wouldn’t write him off. Anyway, some of your assessment didn’t correspond to what I saw, starting with 7 for our ‘keeper. Really?? Discussion’s fine but the comments, to me, were 90% PISH and that’s my genuine belief.
HH
Gotta agree with Tic Toc one or two of the comments were….PISH. or Dementia, or mibbee it was just Tic Tocs.
TicToc,
It’s ok m8, he disnae like marmite
🙂
Wise enough
Desimond,
A wee bit fucking smarmy are you not?
Do you think your opinion is all conquering because your a season ticket holder?
Yes Signed Desimond……
you’re,cough…..
“why his season book costs 1000 quid to accommodate”
OUCH. Nice one. Wee kidney jab right there.
I hear you like a “jab”
TicToc,
Appreciated!!
Monti=Oasis,don’t look back in anger……
nurse!!
Que?
an attempt at humour –
I know….
Aye, BB, not surprised you’re calling for a nurse.
Would that be a wet nurse to go with your infantile rhetoric?
HH
LOL indeed I’m a child at heart hence the infantile responses. Calm down dude. A wet nurse now there is a thought 🙂
Bangour?
He was shite!
What collective thought?
Seems to me theres a broad church of opinion, which is surely the best thing to have in a group of Celtic fans.
We have:
Folk who wonder “Can we do better up against such sides – tactics and/or personnel changes needed?”
Folk who say “Lets be realistic, such big games are bonuses in big scheme of things, keep calm”
Folk who say “Shut up and don’t dare complain”
All in all, a good crowd. if we all agreed, it would be the end of days indeed.
The shut up and don’t complain is the new rule at Parkhead,apparently…….
Quite so
Desi,
Completely agree. We need a broad spectrum of opinion, especially those that agree with me. Only then will the blog be full of true quality!
It is great to read the opinions of others, even the ones that I feel are in left field.
Rebus
Tic Toc ever considered it might be you talking pish? just a thought
BB,
Bit harsh m8
🙂 only digging – sorry Tic Toc 🙂
or Peter’s “Seller’s !!
Just to confirm ny earlier point about the defenders/keeper who i’d sell.
Yes i would sell them because NONE of those mentioned apart from Lustig & Tierney can be trusted.
This has been proven over a number of seasons.
We got lucky with Craig Gordon, getting him on a free, Simunovic is a crock & i think we have treated Sviatchenko appallingly.
Boyata? Just don’t believe in him, he isn’t the worst but poor on the ball & loses his man far too easily.
I would be happy to see Gordon, Simunovic, Sviatchenko, and Boyata go, i stand by that.
As for classy replacements, well yes if we are to improve, everyone knows you build from the back, this is very much tbe case just now with Celtic.
Top comment, Monti and glad you made your points clearly. At least my fairly blunt comment earlier stimulated some decent discussion, however I have a question for you! No, forget that, I don’t want to drag you in so I’ll ask the question to Broxburn, and it’s this: do you watch the football on the radio? I called you out on a comment you made last night saying you added NOTHING. You chose to ignore it. Fine. You’re happy to read around, pick out the bits you think are best and then regurgitate it as your own. Give it a rest.
HH
LOL predictable
Ok since I’m infantile I am unable to resist. I added something I think and I stand by what I opined, you added less then nothing, in fact your subtracted from the discussion. You told us you are right and everybody else is wrong. fair enough I suppose but think about that. everybody in the army is marching the wrong way except oor Tic Toc. How’s that for infantile. Don’t take it so seriously dude these are all opinions no one better than the next. Peace man!
Peace indeed BB. I’ve got much on tomorrow so I’ll sign off tonight with a wee message to all Tims worldwide – even BB- 🙂 Peace and Happiness to all of you, without exception. Sure, we’ve all got our opinions but only get the ONE vote, hence we’re all relatively equal. I like that idea as it’s intrinsic to my philosophy in general. We’ll have a battle on our hands come Saturday and I look forward to it; the 2-2 game was a cracking game and Hibs will be up for this. Let’s hope for good reffing, a great spectacle and a Hoops win. I’ll go 3-1 to the Bhoys. Enjoy the remainder of today, the 60th anniversary of that magical 7-1 and when ….”all Hampden was covered in banners of Green” Happy days.
HH
Peace Tic Toc I love you dude just have some different points of view
Brox you were doin well until yi said ‘dude’
Stop it.
It annoying.
Right, that’s that sorted.
Trying to convey being cool
This is one of the best
posts we have had in a long time. elcormaco is probably the view closest to my own.There were some bits of the second half that gave me hope we can, sometimes, run with the very best. With all respect to Ireland, I would not want us to try win with the style that Packy was talking about. I respect Brendan and I respect our players and the effort we are putting in. We can’t afford to buy players much better than the ones we have now. We have had some good defenders in the past and can maybe find and afford better ones than we have now. Punting long balls to Griffiths last night seemed such a waste of precious possession.
Brendan sometimes gets the selection wrong, but that is only with our hindsight.
Next match against Hibs, let’s just show Lenny and McGinn how we can really play:
Gordon
Lustig/Boyata/Bitton/Tierney
Brown/McGregor
Forrest/Rogic/Sinclair
Dembele
4-1 to the Bhoys.
Can’t speak for the rest of you but in real life I think we probably have more disappointments than joy. Supporting Celtic is one of life’s small joys, a place where we win more often than not. Nae bad, eh?
It is sometimes great fun to be an underdog against the rich elite and greater fun when we occasionally bloody their noses.
We’ve done it to AC Milan, Man Utd, Barcelona etc in recent times so why not Bayern last night or any night to come?
Good health to you all.
And you sir!
4-1 against Hibs,no chance…..poor weather forecast and Celtic players carrying injuries…..
Michael Marra, The bard of bonny Dundee, his tribute song to….Gil Heron, the first black Scottish professional fitba. player. “The Arrow” the first black Celtic player.
When Duke was in the Lebannon,
Groovin! for the human race,
Gil flew high in the Western Sky,
on a mission full of style and grace,
From Jamaica to the Kingston Bridge,
he was inclined to roam,
Drawn to the flame of the..beautiful game,
Here was a brother who would not stay at home.
Higher, raise the bar..higher,
He made his way across the sea,
so that all men could brothers be.
Gil crossed the Ocean to the other side,
to play for Celtic with a noble stride,
The arrow flew he’s flying yet,
His aim is true, so we don’t forget,
What it means when his name we hear,
The hopes and dreams of every pioneer.
RIP a marvellous example of humility and humanity, the World is all the poorer for his anger against…cruelty and racism.
Very good Mike.Lovely historical ode……
Nice one Mike,
Was Mohamed Salim no a professional?
( shame Gil Scott Heron preferred Rangers )
….. and here’s his bhoy doing his thing back in the 70’s.
Good shit Henke!!
Cheers Henke, Larsson, He also raised the bar…higher and continued the tradition of wonderful fitba. players and athletes and that tradition…continues to-day at Celtic, we are all the…richer, for those wonderful black players.
Don’t know if anyone caught the Benfica v Manchester Utd game last night?
Cut a long story short, Benfica had a young lad, 18 year old Miles Svilar in goal & he made a bad error, stepping back over the line whilst holding onto the ball.
At the end of the game a number of Manchester Utd players went over to the young guy, consoling him and showing a lot of class in doing that.
It was really nice to see that from the Utd players, Lukaku in particular.
Well done!
Yeah, I saw the incident but not the United players later.
Anyone who didn’t offer encouragement to that young lad is really an arsehole; wonder what Neymar would’ve done. TWAT.
HH
Bowler? 🙂
🙂
Apart from man city. When we come up against the elite, we get smashed because of a naive approach by the manager. As much as wgs irks me,blow out scores or hidings from teams finding way too much space wouldn’t happen. Rodgers for all his good work can be too cavalier with his game plans. There’s something missing in his overall make up. There’s also a narcissistic stubborn streak
not because the quality of the elite teams then?
Brox..was there no a player from Broxburn in the Celtic team that done the huns 7-1??
Vaguely remember there was.
Mibbie am wrong.
Maybe John Donnelly from wincburgh
being infantile again
no, not my point at all. You can set a team up not to get slaughtered as mon and wgs did, that qualitty is missing from br. olympiacos lost 3-1 away to barca and defended stoutly. We are poor defensively
End result is nil points. I suppose we could have a stout defensive approach. That would take stout defensive players which we would need to bring in. For me I think our players failed to perform to their ability whetever the system we attempted to play. Getting beaten 1-0 on a regular basis would be no fun
There’s nothing, er, infantile, 🙂 about that comment, BB.
“….our players failed to perform to their ability….”
Precisely. And that’s what all the disappointment is REALLY about; it’s not LOSING to really top-notch teams, it’s failing to turn up, NOT performing, that’s what us supporters can’t stomach. Roll on Saturday and give us a PERFORMANCE, Celtic.
I never ask any more, never have and never will.
HH
look at basel.look at their results and how they set their stall out. Are they a better team than Celtic? Is the swiss league better than the spfl. I don’t think br is a european manager, he is a good british manager trying to evolve our game
I did look at Basel. The Swiss champions go directly to the CL group stage. I would guess then that their league is much better than the SPL based on that qualification route based on coefficients which means Swiss teams are doing much better than Scottish teams. I would also guess from them being on their eighth successive – eight in a row – league wins they are probably a very handy side. They did get beaten by Man U 3-0 that said they thrashed Benfica and beat CSKA. Worth looking at what they do as a relatively small Club
In late tonight got probably no one still on but my four pence is we are not one of the “haves” in European terms.
I didnt think we do well against PSG or Bayern so I can cope with the outcome although when watching it I was as frustrated as everyone else.
Be honest we are a bit unlucky with Jozo’s and Dembelle’s injury perhaps Broonie’s and Armstrong’s as well but even if they had all been fit we are not able to beat the PSG’s Bayern Munich’s of this world. Of course we get the odd terrific result, Barcelona, but the fact we still talk about it years later says a lot! Saturday will be tough enough just on the basis of the impact physically and mentally on the team. Brendan is a sound man with a team playing attractive and above all winning football in Scotland.
Anyone else getting tired of the reference to the Barcelona result nearly 6 buken years ago!!
No
A couple of things, Muller should have walked for his studs up tackle on Broonie in the first few minutes, crap refereeing.
We did not have an out ball, the mentality of playing Griff against Boatamg and Humel infantile in the extreme.
When you play teams like Munchen, the oldpunt up the park can work even against the greatest teams.
We lack nonce when we defend, as the league we play in means we do not suffer from pressure as Munchen put us under.
I felt sorry for some of our players, they were not the issue, it was the lack of a defensive formation against a team of Giants, however Gamboa, thought that was a prawn
So Brendan is infantile now?
Fuck sake
No that’s me
🙂
Playing 2 wingers who cut in and almost never go to the byline is out and out stupid against far superior teams. It compresses the much stronger defence right in front of goal starving our striker of the yard of space he needs to make an impact and gives the opposition double the number of players to deal with rebounds etc. For the first 68 minutes Forrest should’ve played, if Sinclair had the ball Griff should’ve been encouraged to float left making space for the cut in, allowing for attacking runs from Forrest/Armstrong and of course Griff would be available to deliver a cross if the ball came to him. They would’ve handled it most of the time with their zonal marking, but it would’ve been very tiring for them.
I accept the have and have nots and how difficult it is to play against teams chocked with world class players. Look at maribor losing 0-7 to liverpool. so we have to try the best of the rest and be like basle, and have a method of playing against the big guns that doesn’t produce school football scores.
In a way, the thrashings can be a good thing if it gets the ire of desmond dermott enacting a release of the check book. Here’s hoping.
Some basics do need to be addressed though, 7 Celtic players between the three Munich players at the first goal, but on to Saturday and maybe just maybe a better performance when Bayern come to Glasgow.
Blessed are the Cheesemakers
“You talk about them learning, but from looking at Celtic over the last one or two years in Europe, they’re not learning. They’re making exactly the same mistakes against top opposition. To me, they’re not learning.” Roy Keane
Dismiss this outright if you will, but why not give it some thought.
Can these players learn to become brilliant individuals? I don’t think so with respect to most of them.If it’s not almost there now I don’t think it will ever be there.
Can they improve individually and learn to play tactics that are more appropriate to dealing with the opposition they face? Yes, I believe so.
Roy Keane nownthere a man that learned from his mistakes and never repeated them – !!!
Despite ALL the negatives, at least we were……….init. and how good it feels to post that. Last year by our C.L. participation we contributed….£4. million pounds to Scottish fitba. I read that the Murderwell C.O. and i’m certain many many other chief executives will be silently praying their thanks to Celtic for this bountiful gift and thanking the Lord that that will be repeated next season.
That £4 mill. was the biggest amount that went to every SPFL team.
Glasgow Celtic, the gift that keeps on GIVING.
Great comment, Mike.
Aye, the “silent majority”. Bastards.
HH
Monti, call it what you want, the error was the managers, against Scottish dross imperious, in Europe clueless.
Mourning parked the bus against Benfica is that I infantile?
So far we have qualified at a struggle, remember Bershiva?
Last year, our worst away loss, this year our worst ever at home loss, naive.
Give Lennyhis due he played to his strengths, using Sammi as an out ball, giving us a brilliant win against Barca, they flung the kitchen sink At us.
We should have brought in another defender, not done, thes torrid Celtic Football club over the years, we seem to emulate a Bridge to Far.
The fans Re sold short, yes ten in a row, but theHoly Grail is Europe after Christmas.
Cartvale we will probably be in Europe after Christmas innthe Europa. I think we need to look at reality here. Bayern beat Arsenal twice last year scoring 5 goals at home and away. PSG are better still. Perhaps the manager made mistakes certainly the players played way below their own standards and that said do you really think that some version of parking the bus would stop Bayern or PSG? The simple fact here is that there are really three tiers in Europe. Top Two in each CL Group the top tier. The next is the bottom two in each CL group and then those in the Europa. UEFA trying to have a competition with just the top tier kind of makes sense as there are too many lop aided results in the CL group stages. That said other teams need to have access. Anyway we are firmly between Tier two and tier three. Able to qualify regularly and unable to make the knock out stage. What will change that – money and lots of it. Unlikely in the SPL world we live in. With luck of the draw we may get a CL group one year with only one super elite team in it and two more evenly matched teams. That’s our chance. Let’s aviod writing off the manager and the players just yet as useless. Our reality is that we will dominate domestically and have adventures in Europe.
And the defense was and still is Arsenal’s weak spot, just like it is ours.
Let’s face it. The objective is to get out of the group stages. That requires frustrating much better opponents, not imagining because BR (who can develop players) is the manager we might beat them. Europe and the SPFL are world’s apart and will never be bridged in our lifetime. But you can still do what’s necessary over two games if you adopt the right tactics with a strong defense and good counter attacking players.
Brendan Rodgers: “Tactically and technically Celtic are good enough – now they just need the nerve.” If you say it often enough you might start to believe it.