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Celtic Diary Monday July 10: Commence Non Violent Direct Action

This phrase was common years ago when pressure groups had simply had enough of whatever it was they were protesting about, and felt that they were being ignored by whoever they had a case against, and weren’t getting support in the mass media.

Its time to look at it as a viable way of getting some credibility, honesty and transparency back into Scottish football.

But where do we start, and how do we prevent a scattergun approach, instead concentrating on getting the message out to those who need to hear it ?

For when we look at the options there is a real danger of dividing our efforts, and not having the impact that is needed.

 

 

The SFA and the SPFL are the ones who govern the game, and thus far we have seen that they are not fit for purpose.

I couldn’t find when the next SFA meeting will take place, their website doesn’t seem to have that information, but I feel its somewhere that a few thousand of us ought to be near when it does.

Same with the SPFL.

In the meantime, the three main competitions in Scotland are sponsored by bookmakers, an industry that has had its interests in England curbed of late due to a conflict of interest.

Conflicts of interest don’t seem to matter in Scotland, as we have seen over the last few years, so Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betfred are the names on the major trophies north of the border.

There’s already a call to boycott these three, a call which should be taken up en masse. If those who are happy to sponsor  sport-and where bookies are concerned fair play should be at the top of their list- and continue to do so without demanding an investigation into recent revelations, then we must assume that they are as equally capable of bending and breaking the rules as are those governing the sport.

Therefore, if you are reluctant to pay into a rigged game, why would you pay into a company thats happy to put its money and name alongside it ?

Give these bookies a miss, and lets see how they respond.

Lets see how long it is before the authorities answer their calls and emails…

Secondly, the mainstream media, who have proved beyond doubt that they do not want to see justice served.

Which paper will be the first to carry the story about an aggrieved car thief being forced, after conviction, to hand back the car to its original owner ?

After all, he won it fair and square in a car chase around the town centre. And the owner had left the door open.

The succession of tax dodgers wheeled out to denounce those who demand an investigation into the dealings of the club that helped them to keep more of their pay packet, granted they had to keep it ofshore, is becoming bizarre, and a little distasteful.

None more so than the Sunday Post, registered at the Post Office as a newspaper, but frankly stretching the description a little.

Fernando Ricksen says stress caused by Rangers ‘big tax case’ fallout is making his illness worse

STRICKEN Rangers ace Fernando Ricksen has revealed stress caused by the “big tax case” fallout is worsening his illness.

The former player – who has an aggressive form of motor neurone disease (MND) – faces a possible six figure bill from the taxman.

Last week Supreme Court judges in London ruled unanimously that Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) payments made under the David Murray regime were not loans, but earnings that should have been taxed.

The step means a host of former Rangers players – Ricksen included – face potentially huge bills.

Dutchman Ricksen, whose EBT value was £684,225 is believed to owe approximately £342,000 in tax.

However, the former star, who insists he was badly advised, has suffered due to the stress the bombshell has caused.

“Of course it doesn’t help with my fight against MND,” he said.

“I think everyone was badly informed about this. I don’t think it’s the players’ fault.

“If it applies to me, I will handle it as it comes, like everything in my life.” 

I get the feeling that Ricksens reply was diplomatic rather than outraged.

He’s got other, more important things to deal with, and you feel thats what he’s actually saying.

And we wish him all the best.

That didn’t stop the Post from using him as an example as to why the taxman is the bad guy here, implying that Hector is making Ricksen suffer more than he needs to.

Absolutely shameful.

Or is it emphasising a lack of shame ?

 

Having stooped this low to continue an agenda that is surprisingly difficult to trace to source, one can only wonder what further depths they will plummet to as they attempt to get everyone to forget about what happened.

Other papers -and Sky sports-have wheeled out those who made a few quid under the counter to tell us why they don’t think there should be investigations, titles stripped or any further discussion on the matter.

Those with wide screen televisions got to see chunky cheat ally mcCoist , who told Sky sports News…oh, who gives a toss what he told them.

It would have been bollocks anyway.

The Record lead today with Arthur numan, whose bulging envelope of tax free lolly contained around half a million quid..

Rangers legend Arthur Numan says title stripping tattle is ‘nonsense’ because trophies were won fair and square

For the rest of this week, that headline will remain the same, with just the players name changed…

And the story below won’t alter much from day to day either..

The Dutchman won the SPL, two Scottish Cups and League Cup trophies during his spell at Ibrox and says it was done fairly. 

Yeah, who cares what the Supreme court say ?

Arthur Numan last night dismissed ‘title stripping’ talk as nonsense and insists he’s proud of every medal won with Rangers during the EBT era.

The former Ibrox hero claimed one Premier League, two Scottish Cups and two League Cup trophies during the spell between 2001-10 when the scheme was in operation. 

Celtic have called for Scottish football bosses to review the Rangers tax case and the 2013 Scottish Premier League commission’s ruling that Rangers “did not gain any unfair competitive advantage” from the use of EBTs.

“These discussions have been going on for such a long time but I can’t see it happening.

“I have heard about the latest discussions and it’s just a lot of nonsense. 

“Why should it happen? Why should they talk about taking our titles away?

“It’s a discussion for people who need to find something to talk about and I don’t even think about it.
“I still have my medals and I’m proud of them. 

“When you see the Celtic team we were up against then, it was high quality, when Martin O’Neill arrived he signed some fantastic players.

“If you go back to the early 2000s then Rangers and Celtic were two fantastic teams.

“I could tell you all the players at Celtic from that time but if you ask me to name two or three players there at the moment I don’t know if I could tell you. 

Lets look a little closer at the narrative within that piece.

Let’s note how “Celtic have called for Scottish football bosses to review the Rangers tax case and the 2013 Scottish Premier League commission’s ruling that Rangers “did not gain any unfair competitive advantage” from the use of EBTs. ” 

Which presumably prompted Numans jibe  ” if you ask me to name two or three players there at the moment I don’t know if I could tell you. ” 

This suggests that the media want to turn it into a Celtic versus Rangers issue, which of course it isn’t.

Or is it deeper than that ?

Does the Scottish mainstream media want to keep Rangers supporters from discovering that it hasn’t been raining over the last ten years, but in fact its the media standing over them, willies on view, telling them that its raining.

That seems more likely from where I’m standing. Where it isn’t raining, but there does seem to be a lot of fog around.

Its not just the Record, they are all at it.

Perhaps its the fear that the hordes, having been handed so many scapegoats in the past, are close to realising that the bad guys in all this were David Murray and his acolytes all along…

And perhaps they now fear the very social unrest that Stewart Regan once spoke of, except that it will all be aimed at them…

Ah well, you reap what you sow.

And the papers should join the bookies on the non violent hit list.

At least until they start to tell the truth, or even somewhere near it. That would be a start.

In fact, more than a start, it would be a considerable leap forward.

 

What I cannot figure out, however, and perhaps its just me, is that none of these EBT recipients have been banging on the doors of their accountants and asking them what they should  do, instead of believing the experts in the media.

Surely when faced with a huge tax bill, you’d be straight on the phone ?

The thing is, I’d say that the accountants advice would be along the lines of “pay it ”

With Hector, who always gets his bit, if you try to hold back, or make excuses, or even ignore him, he’ll charge you extra. up to double what you owe, especially if he thinks you’re at it.

And going into the national media and saying it wasnt their fault is not going to help these players when he asks for his “bit ” .

I’ve a wee bit advice for these players, completely free of charge-there’s no point n sending them a bill. They tend not to pay those.

Pay what you owe, because it will work out cheaper.

And guess what, if it turns out you didn’t owe it, as you seem convinced is the case, Hector will give you it back. no strings attached.

Heres why…

1. Penalties on unpaid tax (See Table 1)

Clearly, the penalty depends on what you did wrong and whether you owned up or waited for HMRC to approach you. The penalties are much lower where you have owned up of your own accord (voluntary disclosure). That’s quite straightforward but the types of behaviour are a little more subjective:

A. Mistake or misrepresentation – completely unintentional and nothing to do with your underlying records. You just made a mistake – pure and simple. We are all human and so if you do make a mistake, and own up to it, HMRC will not charge you any penalties at all.

B. Careless inaccuracy – essentially – you did not take reasonable care. For example, you do not keep sufficient record of how much income you receive so when your tax return is completed, you have no way of knowing whether your income is correctly reflected or not. You haven’t just made a mistake – you physically did not take reasonable care to ensure you could correctly disclose your income.

C. Deliberate understatement or over-claim – in other words – you are naughty and you don’t try to hide it. An example would be paying wages without accounting for PAYE.

D. Deliberate and concealed – you are naughty but you try and make it look like you are not. An example would be creating false invoices. Let’s suppose you own a practice and you normally bank all of your takings. However, every Friday, you put £100 cash from unbanked cash patient charges in your pocket and failed to keep a note of this for your accountant, to whom you only supply your bank statements. Your accounts and tax return will show income as being understated by £50*52 = £2,600. If you just stopped there, you would have been deliberately naughty and so your prompted penalty would be between 35%-70%. However, if when HMRC approach you, you go back to your computer system which records income and try to manipulate this so it agrees with the lower amount shown in your accounts – that is you trying to conceal the fact you have deliberately understated your income, so the penalty increases to 50%-100%  

Taken from an article in a Dental magazine, but written by a chartered accountant called Priya Kotecha, who explains how tax penalties work for dentists, who presumably never had EBTs, but the penalties are explained in the full article here, when you don’t pay Hector, in an easy to understand piece…

Tax Penalties Article

 

 

Any players who wish to contact Rangers about the problem, can do it here..

 

Oh, by the way, back at the ranch the books will show an outgoing of a few million quid with Olivier Ntcham set to sign, and with Paddy Roberts due to pick where he wants to go on loan next season, there are some who suggest that he will pick Celtic again…

On the down side, Stuart Armstrong is starting to twitch a little at the money on offer down south….

 

Yesterdays picture…

Wisnae me July 9, 2017 at 11:29 am · Edit · Reply →

A young Theresa May causes wolf whistlers to think twice. 

And today….

 

 

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D'Fhinnein Mick
6 years ago

From CQN
************
DAVIDOPOULOS on 10TH JULY 2017 9:14 AM

The Clumpany is posting a number of Clyde FC Statements from July 2012 relating to the SFL meetings and proposals to get Sevco into the First Division. It is really interesting reading and an excellent reminder from Clumps about how the authorities behave in times of Ibrox flavoured crisis.
***********

Here’s an example.

http://m.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/07/10/4139/#.WWM2MIjyvIU

Dziekanowski's nightclub child
6 years ago

Caption: Numan checks to see if he is still talking out his arse

6 years ago

Caption….Evolution finally equip’s Stuart Reagan with the ability to look the other way, permanently….. HH

Mike Annis
6 years ago

Caption: You want a good head on that sir? Oops.

"TonyB
6 years ago

Players were improperly registered since details of their contracts were withheld deliberately from the authorities.

In each match that these players paeticipated it must be forfeited by a score of 0-3 in favour of the opposition.

All that remains is to count up every such match to arrive at a final penalty.

Those are the rules and there are ample precedents set for such sanctions.

We need to be pressurising the authorities to get on with it and ignore the pleas from the guilty.

As Mandy Rice Davies once said famously

” They WOULD say that wouldn’t they?

Monti
6 years ago

Caption: ” If the wife phones…you didn’t see me “

salad gueen
6 years ago

How do I neck this?

Mike
6 years ago

Caption- Monti checks his arse to see if Weered is still in there 😉

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Caption: Barman- ” Mike can you look the other way, you coukd take someones eye out with that ” 🙂

Mike
6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

How deep is your love??;-)

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

9″

Mike
6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Hahaha Tiny Tim 😉

6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

You counting both strokes again Monti?

Mike
6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

😉 ( l )

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

🙂

Wullie Tracey
6 years ago

And what makes you think that I have a high level job at the SFA, barman?

6 years ago
Reply to  Wullie Tracey

🙂 Quality

6 years ago

Caption : John James (who for safety reasons apparently needs eyes in the back of his heid ) nips out for a cheeky pint in his £ocal after another successful nights takings at the $peakeasy…

6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

😉

Pat Higney
6 years ago

Caption: SFA Barman: There you go Sir David, one large concentrated EBT, but you seem a bit mixed up, it’s us who always look the other way

6 years ago
Reply to  Pat Higney

Caption : Barman ” There you go Sir David a pint so strong l makes yer heid spin in an instant and leaves you legless for the rest of the night.that will be £16.90 less vat ahem…”

6 years ago

Caption: a hundred in the Louden, having a bevvy, and looking back on the good old days before his club died!

As for Arthur Numan – take the cunt’s medals off him. He’s hanging on to them as treasured memories- by stripping him of his tainted medals, we are affectively wiping these memories away. Also, as if we didn’t know already, by going to Rick’s end for his take on the title-stripping, it shows just how low these fuck wits in the media will stoop to.

Best of all – get a letter sent out from Buck House to David Murray, diplomatically requesting the knighthood back – something along the lines of “you are a fucking cheating bastard. Send back your knighthood, or you’re getting your cunt kicked in, ya fucking wee rat!”.

Strip the titles!!

Billybhoy
6 years ago

I heard on sportsound on Saturday spfl meeting is on the 24th of July

6 years ago

* hun in the Louden

Mike
6 years ago

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that Shearer used a tax avoidance scheme recommended by his accountant and was fined £9m. He then sued his accountants and the case was settled out of court.

6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Never knew that Mike good bit of info there.
This isn’t about the players of course it was the Club who offered this set up in order to entice them into signing.
I believe the media are trying to steer all this onto the individuals in order to bring up our own at Celtic who we think we’re using film companies to avoid paying full whack on their personal finances.
The loonball statement from Drongos 1872 more or less suggested that’s a course of action they will take if titles are removed.
This his the mark of Jabba all over it for me Level 5 are now controlling the narrative in regards who says what via these outlets.
To be using a dying mans illness in order to protect these cunts ( Murray etc ) is lower than a snakes baws in a ditch.

D'Fhinnein Mick
6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Absolutely disgusting article in The Sunday Post.

6 years ago

Horrendous pal.
HH

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Well he is close to being blind…….

6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Caption : Ralph surveys the Ether Bar looking for today’s lost posts (you’ll see my last one in the corner having a conflab with Mikes last post)

Cortes
6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Not sure about the Shearer situation but I recall RTC and some of his/her contributors forecasting a decade of litigation in the wake of Cheatco’s implosion. A goodly part of that will probably be civil action against professional advisors.
Personally I’d like to see a referral to the Crown Office for prosecution of criminal conspiracy to defraud fellow members of the SPL and SFA possibly involving collusion by insiders at said organisations.

Celtic125
6 years ago
Reply to  Cortes

I’d second that referral but would the investigation stretch to those party to the 5 way agreement? The complete rout.

puggy 67
6 years ago

Caption: SFA man continues on quest to sort out his arse from his elbow.

"TonyB
6 years ago

Why is my comment at 10.07 “awaiting moderation”?

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  "TonyB

Because it was pish…..

"TonyB
6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

Woul fit right in here then, pish beimg the order of the day.

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  "TonyB

🙂

Uralius
6 years ago
Reply to  "TonyB

Then it’s a draw.

puggy 67
6 years ago

Caption: Can I at least have a proper head on my pint!

The Budgie
6 years ago

caption

Arthur numan accepts a package but as he’s not looking its unfair to ask him to pay

Cortes
6 years ago

Caption:
Osborne’s “Look Back in Rangers ” is a Riot.

jimmybee
6 years ago

The english fa can afford to let the bookies go as their product is in high demand with sponsors,unlike up here.
I dont think they would be as keen if the roles were reversed. So moral high ground from them isnt something to have a benchmark with.
Im sure some world cup countries would have stories to tell on them with their buying votes campaign.
The sad thing here on a football front is that it happened to them.
Imagine if it had been us or indeed Aberdeen Dundee Utd,then tell me they would have wanted us all to forget and move along for the good of the game.
You can be assured a licence would not have been granted for europe, the LNS inquiry would have had all the facts, and came to the right verdict, and all this club/company pish would never have been heard.
The history would have quite rightly stopped with liquidation, as Fergus knew it would.
Only in this bigoted country has this been alliwed to manifest into what we have.
It has done so because a media is not seeking the truth, but trying to hold on to its readership.
Without the media it is very hard to tell the world what happened here, and for football fans to come to their own conclusion.
When they stopped Phil from his serialization in the sun, they stopped the only truthful written book on the downfall of the institution. This sole act has enabled the lies to continue, they knew what they were doing.
So since we have no media in this country, who want justice, then we have to do it by whatever meabs possible.
Res 12 is still the smoking gun. I believe it should be the next form of attack. If porto do get involved that can only be good.
But we must move on res 12 for they are trying to bury the truth underneath their shite.

6 years ago
Reply to  jimmybee

I agree the smoke and mirrors routine is being deployed now trying to cause all manner of confusion.
You cannot have a Club ,athlete or otherwise being found to have broken rules in order to attain an advantage over their competition?
In any other sporting realm these titles attained during this period would not be up for debate.
RETROSPECTIVE PUNISHMENT IS THE NORM

Strip the tainted titles end of debate.

Brencelt
6 years ago

Caption: Dave kings dad had mastered the art of looking the other way

Damian Gallagher
6 years ago

Caption:

A young Alex McLeish , tells a Rangers director to watch his back as Hector always gets his man in the end.

Brian (not the messia)
6 years ago

Only way to change things is supporters clubs boycott of Hampden and rangers away and encourage other teams to do the same. SFA is rotten, fan power worked in 2012 and will work again. Get up stand up for the champions!!! Btw Ralph I really appreciate that you haven’t sold out to the advertising and click bait!!

6 years ago

Caption
Yeah the wife keeps telling me how my arse is my best feature. I had to look for myself

6 years ago

Caption
I can fully understand efe ambroses heading abilities maybe in question barkeep but fur fucksake give the boy a break

San Miguel
6 years ago

Wille Collum gets a pint in at his local after that match !

"TonyB
6 years ago
Reply to  San Miguel

The winner.

6 years ago

Caption
Its awrite mr regan I told you before it’s only us here

henkesdreadlocks
6 years ago

Caption……….

Punter ‘Haw, bawrman, whits happened to the heid oan ma pint??’

Barman ‘Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!’

Wisnae me
6 years ago

The side letters may indemnify the players from tax, after all it was supposed to be under PAYE and that is the employer’s liability not the employee’s.

Caption: Celtic fan ignores the media and decides that looking backwards is more important than looking forwards.

Westendtim
6 years ago

Rangers provide the explanation for not seeing the tax bill and its difficulties by allowing their chief accountant to be photographed have a pint at lunchtime

elcormaco
6 years ago

I think we should all just move on and let football heal ; )

If the boot were on the other foot and Celtic had been found guilty of financial doping for a 13 year period – 1998 – 2011 then you can bet your a*s we’d lose out titles quicker than you can say “We arra peepul”

6 years ago
Reply to  elcormaco

Elon arvo fair point I’ve agonised over this well sort of but I’m not about a full destruction of the new club I’m for justice and fairness absolutely , but it has to be fair I think if you dismantled any football assosciation. You would uncover nepotism , corruption and well it would lead to its demise. I foresee a token recognition of wrongdoings and maybe some remuneration to clubs that lost out. But you won’t get the full monty. Hopefully there will be worldwide cleaning up of the game look at Blatter and FIFA it’s not as if it’s a sole incident or incidents . When the stakes get higher then the people who invest will try and find loopholes to success that’s what they did and they got caught. But first r the sake of the game we need rapid closure on this

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  elcormaco

Elco,
Spot on!

The Cha
6 years ago

Today’s Diary is sponsored by Paddy Power.

As Celtic fans we need to keep the pressure on our own club and not focus on others, which can only be counter productive.

After the initial statement and the SFA’s “Fuck off” reply hopefully they’re working behind the scenes and in a couple of weeks or so will come up with definite action.

We need to ensure that they’re fully aware of the strength of feeling that we’re ravenous for action, with banners and demos at games etc.

If nothing visible happens within a month then sadly I think they’ll be managing decline of expectations.

Mike
6 years ago
Reply to  The Cha

Joe ORourke Gen.Sec. of the CSA has joined the Celtic Trust emailing Reagan and Doncaster to open an independent enquiry to revisit the tainted titles.
This issue is not going away, and the clamour to reinvestigate the illegal use of the DOS EBT scheme is only going to increase.
Strip the titles.

Brian (not the messiah)
6 years ago
Reply to  The Cha

Who are you? Trying to divide and conquer? Putting pressure on our club is not where it is needed, need to hit SFA SPFL an rangers in the pocket

Brian (not the messiah)
6 years ago
Reply to  The Cha

Who are you? Trying to divide and conquer? Putting pressure on our club is not where it is needed, need to hit SFA SPFL an rangers in the pocket

puggy 67
6 years ago

Caption: Sevco finance director hears a pound coin drop a mile away.

mick
6 years ago
6 years ago

You know what I was embarrassed with the legia and sion decisions and then fucking up afterwards against Maribor etc it tarnished our reputation big time. Made us look foolish. Yeah just about everyone would have taken the opportunities to keep playing in Europe. Why not? But it’s tainted. If I could take those times back then I would. There’s a lot to be said about taking a dignified approach to things and keeping an ordered and honest structure to a club. I recognise that we lost more than any other club from their wrongdoings but for the life of me I’m completely disinterested in the past because if you analyse it we have been shite for decades until now. Getting caught up in bitter feuds when we are on the precipice of something good doesn’t make sense to me

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

PISH

broxburnbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

So Ian you would have agreed to let the team who fielded ineligible players through at our expense in the CL? It tarnished their reputation rather than ours and it was UEFA who noticed and imposed the punishments. So you are basically saying move on? seems like it

6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

@Ian You are of course entitled to your opinions but..
Stop talking pish mate.
HH

Morto
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

This isn’t just about our club, it’s not even limited to other Scottish clubs, there are a whole raft of teams across Europe that lost out to the EBT cheats.
There is zero chance of this going away, the only question is what the outcome will be.
The football authorities will be doing all they can to do damage limitation – to themselves – at the expense of everyone else.
However, once other associations start raising questions the poop really will hit the fan.

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

utter pish

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

that was aimed at ian the move on guy

6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

Not the move on guy. The fucking over it guy

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

dry your fuckin eyes you cunt

TicToc
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

Ian, you’re really missing a lot here. For starters, the same spivs, cheats and liars are STILL doing the same things at Sevco, the SFA and SPFL. Sevco just cheated, and were allowed to do so, to gain a EUFA license this year. The fact they didn’t progress (but Progres did) is irrelevant; THEY’RE ALL STILL AT IT. This is why we cannot and will not move on. That scum have earned everything that’s coming to them. So, FFS get a grip; unity is required to get accountability.
HH

BondiBrian
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

So, Ian. You condone cheating? There should be no time statute on holding those who cheated to account, as emphasizsd again and again; this isn’t a Celtic v rangres fight. Its about doin what right. We’re no asking for favours, simply that rules be followed by one and all.

Paul
6 years ago

Just void the titles, we don’t need or want them.

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

I do & the fucking prize money that went with them…..every fucking penny!

D'Fhinnein Mick
6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

MONTI

I have to agree with Paul. Voiding the titles leaves an indelible stain on their reputation-whoa,reputation?-which awarding them to us won’t.

Plus,prize money? It’s along queue full of creditors,might pay a player’s wages for a week in the end.

But the problem at the moment is the one we need to focus on. Not what we do once they’re called to account,but how we achieve it in the first place.

Do you think this whole shitstorm would have been permitted in any other country? Or even in ours were it any other team?

That’s what we need to overcome. And we can only do that by going for the throat. No more diplomatic persuasion,it has not only failed but been contemptuously thrown back in our faces.

Fuck them. Take them out. We have the big guns,and we now have the ammunition.

Monti
6 years ago

D’Fhinnein,
Agreed!

Wisnae me
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

The danger is that you void the titles both when they won and when they didn’t because the whole competition was rigged regardless of whether they won or not.

broxburnbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Wisnae me

Maybe – seems like the Tour de France or the Olympics or Italian Serie A continued despite some being founds guilty and punished. They alone cheated the rest were victims. That is a difference from the whole thing being corrupt. When poice catch a speeder on the motorway they fine the speeder or disqualify the driver. They leave the motorway open for all others to use.

Wisnae me
6 years ago
Reply to  broxburnbhoy

Serie A handed the title to the runners up, except in the first year where the runners up were also implicated. Likewise the top Tour riders were mostly implicated, all but one of the podium riders were implicated during his 7 wins, hence those were voided.

So, unless you think Celtic were also implicated (and the cup runners up) then the titles should go to Celtic and the cups to the runners up. There is ample precedence.

broxburnbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Wisnae me

I can repeat. Only one club was cheating Oldco Rangers. There is no implication that because they cheated all competitions must be entirely voided. That is just daft. I do think the titles should go to Celtic as runners up who played by the rules.

Pensionerbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Wisnae me

Wisnae me,

Can I respectfully refer you to my comment on this yesterday. Legal verdicts are often established by interpretation of first cases. That then is traditionally entered as the established verdict for any future similar case. This is accepted e.g. a prosecution or defence can base their case on a previous court decision i.e. So and so versus so and so. Historically, it has been the tradition in all football to penalise the offender only.
Based on this criteria, it would appear logical to me to penalise Rangers F.C. (IL) only and not all clubs.

May I point out that my only experiences of court have been in the dock, probably not the most legally instructive place in that establishment. And, even though my words may be almost identical to the made-up media journalism you are used to, the closest I have come to newspaper is when I wiped my rear end with them in my childhood.

H H

Wisnae me
6 years ago
Reply to  Pensionerbhoy

If the whole system is rigged, as opposed to just one participant, then there is no winner, whereas if there is just one wrongdoer then the best of the rest should be awarded the title, even if they’re not proud of it. c.f. Serie A 2005 vs 2006, or Tour de France 1999-2005 vs 2006

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Wisnae me

Wisnae me,
In the words of Jeff Lebowski-” That’s fucking interesting, man “!

6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

I am of the opinion those titles are poison now.
Struck them from the records ,leave an asterisk in their place as a constant reminder the Club Rangers FC was a cheating bastard before it consumed them.

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

Correct!

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Paul

i want them stolen titles either that or gimme ma fuckin money back

Monti
6 years ago

How difficult can it be for football authorities to just impliment their own fucking rules? FFS min

IMPLIMENT YOUR FUCKING RULES!

shiltrum
6 years ago

Caption: Sir David told me the 3rd degree was a c+++

Finn McCool
6 years ago

Over at the Scotsman, the Klan are using the complaint system to delete all comments on the cheating years.
Get yourselves over there and start commenting profusely.

portpower
6 years ago

Caption:
May the power of liquid compel you.

6 years ago

Willie Collum toasts another honest mistake

D J Smyth
6 years ago

Ian67Celt.
If the game is not only honest but seen to be honest. Then the game is over . We have had bad periods but at no time did we lower ourselves to cheat or attempt to cheat . As the biggest club in our association we must do our utmost to protect the integrity of the game . We all know of small clubs been thrown out of competitions on a technicality , a date or signature missing , & yet you say we should turn a blind eye & ignore probably the biggest ever con in world football

6 years ago

Has Ann Budge got laryngitis?
She usually has an opinion on on anything to do with irregularities within our game.
Her silence given she’s on the SPFL Board with Peter Lawwell l find very strange.

broxburnbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Good point – where is her usually vociferous response? Is it only Celtic she likes to talk about in derogatory terms? Maybe she could represent her supporters and shareholders by condemning cheating and sympathizing with the teams affected. Sure her integrity runs beyond staying silent?

6 years ago
Reply to  broxburnbhoy

Could be her and Leeann Dempster are holding their fire until Lawwell tells them to pull the trigger at the next SPFL Board meeting?
Here’s hoping they are.

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Or until Jeremy Kyle, omnibus is finished…..

6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

🙂

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

this isnae aboot celtic and cheats nomatter how hard they try to make it so

Mike
6 years ago

The record books should show Null and Void. Title (or trophy) withdrawn.
A historical record of ” The cheating years”!!!

6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Spot on.
Tainted forever more and nowhere near our gleaming haul of trophies.

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Pish

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Mike

mike a want them stolen titles

6 years ago

just a bit concerned on what s going to happen. This distraction of title stripping has become bigger than the game itself in our eyes. I think the titles should be taken away. It’s just the whole complexities that come along with that. You’re going to get individual law suits happening or class actions from player groups demanding bonus money with interest, any mental health issues that may have arisen from said loss of income. I think a line has to be drawn here I don’t know where but the whole thing isn’t going to make our completion any better we can’t go any lower than losing to teams from Luxembourg or Lithuania unless they start creating smaller countries. Mayb the Vatican should throw a team in to beat us

6 years ago

Maybe it’s just summer talk and this thing will come a side issue again when the football starts again. It’s done my head in. Get it done one way or the other

broxburnbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

‘This thing” you mean an illegal tax avoidance scheme designed give one club an advantage over all the others? Do you think we should just move on? Seems like you do. This is about integrity and where it has been proven to have been breached. Consequences have to happen whether it does your head in or not. So Ian are you recommending we should all move on?

6 years ago
Reply to  broxburnbhoy

Broxburn eventually. But I know some won’t but that’s healthy in footballspeak. I know what it is , it’s significant , it’s a winner . 100% guilty . I’m saying find u fucking solution and move on not just move on with no result

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

ian when the cheats are expunged fae oor gemme then we move on……………..ur you a hun

BondiBrian
6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

Sake Charlie, its got a different take on the subject. Less of the ‘hun’ shite, eh.

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

bndi ur you a hun

6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

PISH to that

BondiBrian
6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

charlie July 11, 2017 at 12:07 am ·

bndi ur you a hun

Naw Charle, am no.
Hope that cleared it up for yi, noo stop being a pest.

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

a might no be a good speller but your no a pest your a fuckin hun imho but dont fuck off let us feel your pain

BondiBrian
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

Ian, its no simply a matter of ‘moving on’ – that’s nae bother. Its movin in the right direction to get an outcome which adheres ti the buken rules.

They cheated. Of that we know.

Noo its time that the ramifications of that decade long cheat is exposed ti the fulles and all guilty & complicit parties held accountable.

Remember Ian, we wouldnay be in this situation if olco rangers chose no ti cheat. Let the word sink in: CHEAT.s

6 years ago
Reply to  BondiBrian

Once again, I’m not saying move on with no result or justice . Just a speedy conclusion thanks

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  BondiBrian

speedy conclusions are for cunts ………who are happy to sit at the backy the bus ………….have you ever lived in glesga

6 years ago
Reply to  BondiBrian

Yeah Charlie. Mary hill, denistioun, garthamlock, cowcaddens
Backyard the bus was were all the action was

6 years ago
Reply to  BondiBrian

Backy

6 years ago
Reply to  BondiBrian

I’m no a Hun I wis greeting when we lost quizball in the seventies might have been the sixties I was about 10

6 years ago

Caption: That awkward moment you realise the “burd” you have been chatting up on tinder has agreed to meet you in her local gay bar…

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

goodness gracious me see yoos sodgers

Pensionerbhoy
6 years ago

CS,

“The Windmills of Your Mind” – mine boggles!!

H H

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

fuckin hell that sais loves yon cross dressers

6 years ago

Look this ‘thing’ is important and I appreciate everyone’s zeal to get the bastards done over, unfortunately for me I tend to think holistically and worry about the game in general. It used to be Slovakian teams or Scandinavian teams both sides (Celtic and ‘rangers’ and or/oldco) would maybe lose against and there would be banter and ridiculing no end. Now it’s fucking teams from Gibraltar and Luxembourg. The bar cant be dropped any lower , that’s it. Scotland is the ONLY country in the world to go backwards in football throw in Hungary though they seem to be slightly on the up again. Maybe something good will come out of this and I apologise to all I know it means a great deal and it . But I’ll take a bit of time off here and check back when the football starts in earnest.

6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

No need pal just roll with the punches and hit back with the craic 😉

Monti
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

Iancelt,
Dinnae take a break m8, we need someone to balance up the shite CS speaks 🙂

6 years ago
Reply to  Monti

No need it gets watered down with the torren of pish fae Monti 🙂

6 years ago
Reply to  Charlie Saiz

Torrent ‘

Pensionerbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

Iancelt,

I think it is a really big mistake to talk about wanting “the bastards done over”. This is not a vendetta nor an act of vengeance. That is media, guilt ridden directors and running scared EBT recipients talk. What we are seeking is the removal of the stains of corruption from the “cheating” years to allow at least some integrity back into the game. The essence of our protests must the restoration of honesty, openness and equality to Scottish football governance and to the game itself. Otherwise we shoot ourselves in the foot. We will scare off other clubs who will see it as simply more Celtic versus Rangers in-fighting and, believe me, there are many who would welcome this excuse to get off the hook and “stay out of it”. It might even give our own club a reason to hold fire or totally ignore our demands adjudging them to be nothing but another facet of the usual “Old Firm” rivalry nonsense. They have found ways to turn the tables on us before.
Making it a Rangers/Celtic issue will be fatal. We will become the suppliers of the very weapons that will shoot these issues stone dead.

H H

6 years ago
Reply to  Pensionerbhoy

Listening to the sportsound podcast. Graham spears et al were saying it will be swept under the carpet unless fans say otherwise and force the clubs to take action . He also was one of the only ones on there to say that they cheated big time. Though the clubs are looking on it like s potential poison chalice blah blah . Pensionerbhoy , I said it before there has to be a class action taken here otherwise it looks like a vindictive intent

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Pensionerbhoy

hail hail

Broxburnbhoy
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

Simply want cheating to be addressed. It’s kind of important. Let’s avoid falling into the “no appetite” narrative coordinated by level 5 or turning it into a Rangers v Celtic thing. This is one club cheating the rest over several years and being caught red handed – no pun intended.

charlie
6 years ago
Reply to  Iancelt67

ian if you appreciate the zeal wit the fuck are you cryin aboot

6 years ago
Reply to  charlie

Sort of not against it Charlie just don’t want to be consumed by it ….not a priority

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